Realism/Historical Question about Re-Supply Ships

Lokisaga · 02-26-14, 01:16 AM

Hi all,
I'd like to know what supplies the covert tankers and re-supply ships (Max Albericht, Brake, etc.) carried. I did some research on uboat.net, but I couldn't find anything specific. It sounds like most of them were civilian tankers pressed into service. Did they still retain their civilian crews, or were they crewed by Kriegsmarine personal? I assume they supplied the u-boats with fuel, food, and maybe a few spare parts (not sure if a u-boat and a tanker have much in common, mechanically speaking). Did they carry torpedoes? If they did, and if the they had civilian crews, that seems very risky.

Thanks

Marcello · 02-26-14, 04:23 AM

I do not have a record for each but Thalia is mentioned to have carried spare torpedoes/ammunition in some sources. Some of these ships were sent in spanish ports on purpose and refueling happened with the complicity of the spanish government. I would not be surprised if there were arrangements to restock the supply ships themselves with items like fuel and spare parts for u-boats. It is a safe bet that crews were competent at whatever was called of them regardless of their official status.

Marcello · 02-26-14, 04:38 AM

Also this should give an idea of what the Axis could get away with in Spain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian...y_ship_Olterra

Leandros · 02-26-14, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokisaga

Did they carry torpedoes? If they did, and if the they had civilian crews, that seems very risky.

Thanks

There was developed a tradition in the Kriegsmarine for using civilian crews in ships pressed into warlike missions. In principle, they were just conscripted into their old job and the crew complemented with specialists, such as for signals and armaments. The civilian captain often would be duplicated by a naval officer responsible for operations as such.

This seems to have worked quite well, actually and was used in a large scale during the planning for Operation Sea Lion Fall 1940.

Regds

Fred

Lokisaga · 02-27-14, 06:45 PM

Neat info. Thanks for the help.

GJO · 02-28-14, 08:46 AM

Of course in the game even with the a whole package of 'realism' mods, the supply ships are far better equipped than they could possibly be in real life!

In an earlier career I docked alongside Thalia just outside the Spanish harbour of Cadiz (I think it was) because I had suffered very severe damage from depth charges during an encounter with EDs after I had attacked a Gibralter bound convoy. In 24 hours the magical crew of Thalia managed to replace my destroyed Port diesel and repaired the damaged starboard engine, they also replaced my destroyed hydrophones, radio, periscopes, flak gun and deck gun and restored my hull integrity to 100% from 27%. I also found suitable replacements for 14 dead crew members and put to sea again with a full load of fuel and torpedoes. Very little (if any) of this would have been possible in R/L. In fact, I am guessing that in R/L I would not have been able to escape the destroyers because I would surely be leaving a very visible trail of oil on the surface and they would have pursued me to destruction rather than disappear over the horizon with the convoy?

BigWalleye · 02-28-14, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJO

Of course in the game even with the a whole package of 'realism' mods, the supply ships are far better equipped than they could possibly be in real life!

In an earlier career I docked alongside Thalia just outside the Spanish harbour of Cadiz (I think it was) because I had suffered very severe damage from depth charges during an encounter with EDs after I had attacked a Gibralter bound convoy. In 24 hours the magical crew of Thalia managed to replace my destroyed Port diesel and repaired the damaged starboard engine, they also replaced my destroyed hydrophones, radio, periscopes, flak gun and deck gun and restored my hull integrity to 100% from 27%. I also found suitable replacements for 14 dead crew members and put to sea again with a full load of fuel and torpedoes. Very little (if any) of this would have been possible in R/L. In fact, I am guessing that in R/L I would not have been able to escape the destroyers because I would surely be leaving a very visible trail of oil on the surface and they would have pursued me to destruction rather than disappear over the horizon with the convoy?

GJO, just to satisfy my curiousity, which, if any mods were you using at the time? I could hope that some of the megamods might improve on the historical accuracy here, and limit the capabilities of the resupply ships. But I don't know if any actually do.

GJO · 03-01-14, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

GJO, just to satisfy my curiousity, which, if any mods were you using at the time? I could hope that some of the megamods might improve on the historical accuracy here, and limit the capabilities of the resupply ships. But I don't know if any actually do.

At that time the main mods that I had were GWX3 and the realism 'patch' v1.6b with longer repair times etc enabled. I was playng with realism set to 62% (I occasionally like to wath the external camera view) most other mods were just graphical.

ETA: I also have SH3 Commander and I had adjusted time in base to one day - so the lack of realism time wise was of my own volition but in real life the boat would have needed months of work at a main shipyard.

LGN1 · 03-02-14, 01:26 PM

The original supply ships are just regular bases like all the other harbors. The only mod that I'm aware of that changes this is H.Sie's and Stiebler's work (if you want this mod to work also with the supply ships you have to change their names to 'U-...', i.e., the name must start with 'U-'. For instance, "U-supply ship Thalia"):

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174225

12. U-Tanker Mod - by Stiebler and h.sie
Everyone complains that, when you dock at a U-tanker in mid-ocean, you lose all your current renown/tonnage for medal purposes, you get a full refuelling, full repairs, full torpedo load-out and you lose the patrol grid which BdU ordered. No longer! With this Fix, you get only 1-4 air torpedoes, you retain the patrol grid details, you receive some repairs to your hull-integrity (but not to equipment) and you receive a fuel upgrade, of up to 30% of the full capacity.

GJO · 03-03-14, 04:40 AM

I have downloaded that mod and hope to install when I am satisfied that all is going well with SH3+GWX+v1.6b in Windows 8.1. So far, so good! I have just returned from my 8th patrol and the only issue to date has been two occasions where I failed to get credit for a vessel that I had sunk.

02-26-14, 01:16 AM	#1
Lokisaga Seaman Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 39 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Realism/Historical Question about Re-Supply Ships Hi all, I'd like to know what supplies the covert tankers and re-supply ships (Max Albericht, Brake, etc.) carried. I did some research on uboat.net, but I couldn't find anything specific. It sounds like most of them were civilian tankers pressed into service. Did they still retain their civilian crews, or were they crewed by Kriegsmarine personal? I assume they supplied the u-boats with fuel, food, and maybe a few spare parts (not sure if a u-boat and a tanker have much in common, mechanically speaking). Did they carry torpedoes? If they did, and if the they had civilian crews, that seems very risky. Thanks

02-26-14, 04:23 AM	#2
Marcello Planesman Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 183 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	I do not have a record for each but Thalia is mentioned to have carried spare torpedoes/ammunition in some sources. Some of these ships were sent in spanish ports on purpose and refueling happened with the complicity of the spanish government. I would not be surprised if there were arrangements to restock the supply ships themselves with items like fuel and spare parts for u-boats. It is a safe bet that crews were competent at whatever was called of them regardless of their official status.

02-26-14, 04:38 AM	#3
Marcello Planesman Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 183 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Also this should give an idea of what the Axis could get away with in Spain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian...y_ship_Olterra

02-27-14, 06:45 PM	#5
Lokisaga Seaman Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 39 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Neat info. Thanks for the help.

02-28-14, 08:46 AM	#6
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Of course in the game even with the a whole package of 'realism' mods, the supply ships are far better equipped than they could possibly be in real life! In an earlier career I docked alongside Thalia just outside the Spanish harbour of Cadiz (I think it was) because I had suffered very severe damage from depth charges during an encounter with EDs after I had attacked a Gibralter bound convoy. In 24 hours the magical crew of Thalia managed to replace my destroyed Port diesel and repaired the damaged starboard engine, they also replaced my destroyed hydrophones, radio, periscopes, flak gun and deck gun and restored my hull integrity to 100% from 27%. I also found suitable replacements for 14 dead crew members and put to sea again with a full load of fuel and torpedoes. Very little (if any) of this would have been possible in R/L. In fact, I am guessing that in R/L I would not have been able to escape the destroyers because I would surely be leaving a very visible trail of oil on the surface and they would have pursued me to destruction rather than disappear over the horizon with the convoy?

03-02-14, 01:26 PM	#9
LGN1 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,138 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 12	The original supply ships are just regular bases like all the other harbors. The only mod that I'm aware of that changes this is H.Sie's and Stiebler's work (if you want this mod to work also with the supply ships you have to change their names to 'U-...', i.e., the name must start with 'U-'. For instance, "U-supply ship Thalia"): http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174225 12. U-Tanker Mod - by Stiebler and h.sie Everyone complains that, when you dock at a U-tanker in mid-ocean, you lose all your current renown/tonnage for medal purposes, you get a full refuelling, full repairs, full torpedo load-out and you lose the patrol grid which BdU ordered. No longer! With this Fix, you get only 1-4 air torpedoes, you retain the patrol grid details, you receive some repairs to your hull-integrity (but not to equipment) and you receive a fuel upgrade, of up to 30% of the full capacity.

03-03-14, 04:40 AM	#10
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I have downloaded that mod and hope to install when I am satisfied that all is going well with SH3+GWX+v1.6b in Windows 8.1. So far, so good! I have just returned from my 8th patrol and the only issue to date has been two occasions where I failed to get credit for a vessel that I had sunk.