US and Iran agreement reached

Skybird · 11-24-13, 06:58 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25074729

Iran did what it always does: trading words for time, and some sanction relief.

No word on Arrak.

No word on what after 6 months.

It is the typical mistake you see quite often in history: forcing a dangerous enemy into the corner - and then giving him a break of relief so that he can take a deep breath and become stronger again.

The centrifuges will stay where they are. Arak stays like it is. What is done in the hidden Kerry and Obama opportunistically do not care for.

I think since years that Obama is not williung to confront Iran over an Iranian nuclear bomb. He simply gives sh!t for the ME and Europe as well, does not even know anything of meaning about both places. He is focussed on the Pacific, and the energy boom in the US, most likely making the US the biggest oil producer by 2015, means they can strategically afford to give up their committment in the ME.

Bad news for the regimes there, from Egypt to Saudi Arabia, from Oman to Quatar. They are left with being confronted with their old Shia arch enemy fighting for dominance in the Muslim world: the Persians.

What the Americans will have achieved after Obama, is to have pressed the start button for a nuclear arms race in the region. My opinion of Obama never was that high and I always rejected the hysteria about the man five and six years ago when he visited Germany, he was a gifted speaker, but words mean nothing, his deeds speak against him, and not even the good speeches you hear from him anymore, meaning that even his value as a show entertainer has declined. It was hard to imagine by the end of Bush's reign, but Obama probably will leave behind even greater strategic longterm damage than Bush - and Bush already did a dedicated job in that regard.

European Gutmenschen no doubt will hail the agreement as a big step towards a peaceful solution over Iran. Ha! We will hear from their bomb program again, believe me. They want the bomb. The agreement now is what they are needed to do in order get it. They have been allowed to keep their trumps, and get some without giving something of substantial value.

But as I said, the US' interest in the ME is in decline anyway. Seen that way the policy of theirs now is just logical. It's called "pulling out".

It is unlikely that the Europeans will take this as a wake-up call. And that is probably the most important part of this story. My long-held believe that in the end Israel will be given up and the West will arrange itself with the Iranian bomb and will accept becoming susceptible to blackmail, has jumped upwards in intensity today. The nuclear arms race this necessarily will launch, will be claimed to have been "unforseeable".

Yes. How could one have seen that coming...

And Rouhani played his cards well. He is as adamant on the bomb program as Ahmadinejadh has been. He just conceals it much better behind smiles, avoiding unneeded provocations, and speaking sweet words while shaking hands. That is what Westerners want to see in order to be made believing. Of course they immediately fell for this guy when he announced his candidacy.

Problem is he is neither the moderate nor the reformer Westerners want him to see as. Currently he is only about one thing: consolidating his power basis in the population. And the West has become his accomplice in that.

11-24-13, 07:12 AM

Quote:

No word on Arrak.

No word on what after 6 months.

The word on Arak is that it is suspended, its tied up with the ban on plutonium reprocessing which makes the concern over that plutonium which would have been produced there irrelevant.
Its all available on your link

Not commission the Arak reactor.
· Not fuel the Arak reactor.
· Halt the production of fuel for the Arak reactor.
· No additional testing of fuel for the Arak reactor.
· Not install any additional reactor components at Arak.
· Not transfer fuel and heavy water to the reactor site.
· Not construct a facility capable of reprocessing. Without reprocessing, Iran cannot separate plutonium from spent fuel.

CaptainHaplo · 11-24-13, 04:58 PM

Oh look - its "peace in our time" all over again...

Jimbuna · 11-24-13, 05:01 PM

Only time (six months) will tell.

mapuc · 11-24-13, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Oh look - its "peace in our time" all over again...

Same thought, When I heard the news about the agreement, my first thought was some kind of deja vú.

Markus

11-24-13, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Oh look - its "peace in our time" all over again...

I doubt it, I think the Iranians fully expect America to carry on invading countries.

TarJak · 11-24-13, 06:51 PM

That and telling other countries what they can or cannot do within their own borders.

Platapus · 11-24-13, 07:31 PM

I suppose no one is interested in that we still have no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.

But since when did the US need evidence?

Bubblehead1980 · 11-24-13, 07:37 PM

Barack Obama aka Neville Chamberlain, disgusting.Honestly, I used to chalk it up to naivete' such as how he used to see Putin but with Iran, not sure if it is naivete or he is doing this on purpose, ignoring the risks.Just reminds me of Jimmy Carter's out of touch with reality view on the world. SMH

Skybird · 11-24-13, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I suppose no one is interested in that we still have no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.

"Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - Walter Ulbricht 1961

When you see somebody swinging the barrel of his rifle at your direction, you have time to decide what to do - that time he needs to complete the movement. But you better have done something BEFORE he has trimmed it on you. Because if he has completed the movement, then it is too late.

Really want to bet money on that he will interrupt and stop in mid-movement? With the nuclear destabilization of THAT region and a worse and far more unpredictable and instable nuclear arms race then the cold war being at stake!? And dealing with a regime that actively funds terrorism, transports it to other countries, and is engaged with own special forces ion its neighbouring countries?

Or when the first mushroom cloud raises after a terror strike on a Western city, carried out by some Islamic group. One could still argue that until the attacker does not admit it, it only has been a "mistake", no intention.

And that Iran, this notorious trouble maker, becomes untouchable and can do what it wants (see NKorea) once it got the bomb, and this with that record of confessed intentions and ambitions - that it can blackmail and stay immune at the same time means little to you, becasue there is no evidence,. black on white, eh?

Come to your senses. This is the real world, no abstract office. Bad stuff has happend so often in history without any evidence beign given in advance. Bad stuff happening without evidence is possible, and proven to happen by empiric experience. You can known, if only you want, what Iran is about and what they want, and that it is a conflict with the Sunni that leads far beyond Israel and the confrontation with Europe and the US and the modern present. Stop denying that unwelcomed historic facts. Start to add one and one together. See if you can manage to get another result than two without bending the laws of maths.

People are so eager to make the most absurd distortions in thinking just to avoid at all cost the conclusion that they must accept the chance of a confrontation. Its called: being intimidated. And intimidation makes oneself weaker, and the aggressor ever stronger.

11-24-13, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I suppose no one is interested in that we still have no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.

Don't quibble on little details.

Quote:

But since when did the US need evidence

Well they needed evidence on Iraq, unfortunately the Iranians spoon fed them some really bad fake evidence, which they very eagerly swallowed

Skybird · 11-25-13, 06:53 AM

German news holds more news on Arak. The agreement says that they can continue to build it, but are not allowed to activate it and fuel it. Since they cnanot activate and fuel it within the next 6 months anyway, they have given nothing there.

In other words the West gives them billions in sanction relief for continuing at Arak's construction and getting closer to the ability to enrich plutonium after six months.

Kerry says this makes the ME safer.

You can imagine what I would say about Kerry.

Aloso new word on the centrifuges. Existing installation stay. Centrifugfes that await installation stay were they are. No centrifuges get removed, moved out of the country, neither installed or stockpiled ones. In six months, after the inner political climate has calmed down a bit due to the sanction reliefs, they can just continue to install the stockpiled contrifuges they already have.

In other words, Iran gets billions in sanction reliefs, and can continue to construct Arak, and just agreed to a break in centrifuge operation and installation.

Western "diplomats" should get spanked. Once again they think that ink and paper is stronger than reality, and that the laws of nature bend to political ideology and hopeful desires.

Last but not least we all will pay the price for allowing these unscrupulous imbeciles to get away with it. We will get what we deserve.

11-25-13, 07:10 AM

Quote:

German news holds more news on Arak. The agreement says that they can continue to build it, but are not allowed to activate it and fuel it. Since they cnanot activate and fuel it within the next 6 months anyway, they have given nothing there.

In other words the West gives them billions in sanction relief for continuing at Arak's construction and getting closer to the ability to enrich plutonium after six months.

Read what it says, its all directly accessible in the link you first posted.
All you have to do is click the link in the middle of the article

MH · 11-25-13, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

I suppose no one is interested in that we still have no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon.

But since when did the US need evidence?

No... they are just like Swedes...having fun splitting atoms.

Skybird · 11-25-13, 06:44 PM

German comment that matches my thoughts exactly. The author has clearly understood the insane implications of that agreement.

http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentar...an-freuen.html

11-24-13, 06:58 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	US and Iran agreement reached http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25074729 Iran did what it always does: trading words for time, and some sanction relief. No word on Arrak. No word on what after 6 months. It is the typical mistake you see quite often in history: forcing a dangerous enemy into the corner - and then giving him a break of relief so that he can take a deep breath and become stronger again. The centrifuges will stay where they are. Arak stays like it is. What is done in the hidden Kerry and Obama opportunistically do not care for. I think since years that Obama is not williung to confront Iran over an Iranian nuclear bomb. He simply gives sh!t for the ME and Europe as well, does not even know anything of meaning about both places. He is focussed on the Pacific, and the energy boom in the US, most likely making the US the biggest oil producer by 2015, means they can strategically afford to give up their committment in the ME. Bad news for the regimes there, from Egypt to Saudi Arabia, from Oman to Quatar. They are left with being confronted with their old Shia arch enemy fighting for dominance in the Muslim world: the Persians. What the Americans will have achieved after Obama, is to have pressed the start button for a nuclear arms race in the region. My opinion of Obama never was that high and I always rejected the hysteria about the man five and six years ago when he visited Germany, he was a gifted speaker, but words mean nothing, his deeds speak against him, and not even the good speeches you hear from him anymore, meaning that even his value as a show entertainer has declined. It was hard to imagine by the end of Bush's reign, but Obama probably will leave behind even greater strategic longterm damage than Bush - and Bush already did a dedicated job in that regard. European Gutmenschen no doubt will hail the agreement as a big step towards a peaceful solution over Iran. Ha! We will hear from their bomb program again, believe me. They want the bomb. The agreement now is what they are needed to do in order get it. They have been allowed to keep their trumps, and get some without giving something of substantial value. But as I said, the US' interest in the ME is in decline anyway. Seen that way the policy of theirs now is just logical. It's called "pulling out". It is unlikely that the Europeans will take this as a wake-up call. And that is probably the most important part of this story. My long-held believe that in the end Israel will be given up and the West will arrange itself with the Iranian bomb and will accept becoming susceptible to blackmail, has jumped upwards in intensity today. The nuclear arms race this necessarily will launch, will be claimed to have been "unforseeable". Yes. How could one have seen that coming... And Rouhani played his cards well. He is as adamant on the bomb program as Ahmadinejadh has been. He just conceals it much better behind smiles, avoiding unneeded provocations, and speaking sweet words while shaking hands. That is what Westerners want to see in order to be made believing. Of course they immediately fell for this guy when he announced his candidacy. Problem is he is neither the moderate nor the reformer Westerners want him to see as. Currently he is only about one thing: consolidating his power basis in the population. And the West has become his accomplice in that. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-24-13, 04:58 PM	#3
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Oh look - its "peace in our time" all over again... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

11-24-13, 05:01 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,452 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Only time (six months) will tell. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-24-13, 07:31 PM	#8
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I suppose no one is interested in that we still have no evidence that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon. But since when did the US need evidence? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-25-13, 06:53 AM	#12
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	German news holds more news on Arak. The agreement says that they can continue to build it, but are not allowed to activate it and fuel it. Since they cnanot activate and fuel it within the next 6 months anyway, they have given nothing there. In other words the West gives them billions in sanction relief for continuing at Arak's construction and getting closer to the ability to enrich plutonium after six months. Kerry says this makes the ME safer. You can imagine what I would say about Kerry. Aloso new word on the centrifuges. Existing installation stay. Centrifugfes that await installation stay were they are. No centrifuges get removed, moved out of the country, neither installed or stockpiled ones. In six months, after the inner political climate has calmed down a bit due to the sanction reliefs, they can just continue to install the stockpiled contrifuges they already have. In other words, Iran gets billions in sanction reliefs, and can continue to construct Arak, and just agreed to a break in centrifuge operation and installation. Western "diplomats" should get spanked. Once again they think that ink and paper is stronger than reality, and that the laws of nature bend to political ideology and hopeful desires. Last but not least we all will pay the price for allowing these unscrupulous imbeciles to get away with it. We will get what we deserve. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-24-13, 06:51 PM	#7
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	That and telling other countries what they can or cannot do within their own borders.

11-24-13, 07:37 PM	#9
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,099 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	Barack Obama aka Neville Chamberlain, disgusting.Honestly, I used to chalk it up to naivete' such as how he used to see Putin but with Iran, not sure if it is naivete or he is doing this on purpose, ignoring the risks.Just reminds me of Jimmy Carter's out of touch with reality view on the world. SMH

11-25-13, 06:44 PM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	German comment that matches my thoughts exactly. The author has clearly understood the insane implications of that agreement. http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentar...an-freuen.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.