Convoy...

[harishrajan96]

Please suggest a good way of getting inside a convoy by inside I mean breaching the escort sonar ability...I read somewhere that diving deep down below the thermal layer and the coming to periscope depth and firing at the convoy was the "default" tactic but I always seem to catch the destroyers attention..

[c13Garrison]

Its a very tricky prospect, as I've learned here from folks far wiser than I that the default AI both listens And pings, making it very difficult to dupe. Tactics to consider-

Assume their visual detection range is 8nm.
Assume they can hear Ahead Slow at 5000 yards.
Get below the thermal layer on approach.
Try to time your approach to cross in behind a passing escort.

Ideally, don't approach at all. Lay still, set up along their avenue of advance. Only use the periscope for quick peeks and shooting, otherwise listen. Sit deep until your prize is about 2500 yards, then come to periscope depth. Never use the scope while making 2 or more knots, its wake will tip you off. After you shoot don't watch, downscope & head deep but Slowly. Making noise is never a good thing. My best attacks I never move at all, and am never detected.

I'm sure there's a proper forum link here somewhere, but that's my 10 cents on the topic.

[Armistead]

There's no one right way, but many wrong ways.

The first thing is to understand how sonar works. The IJN used different sonar through the war, later war sonar is much more effective than
early war. Mods differ, but for the most part sonar improves mid 42-43. You don't want to fall within the sonar cone in game. If you do so, they
will pick you up and you will hear pinging. They're also several factors that determine if and how well they can pick you up on sonar. You want to stack all the factors you can to your benefit. Keep this in mind, in game sonar isn't realistic. Technically, it's always on, but only finds you
when you get within it's cone.

I'll cover the main factors.

Distance: If you fall into the range of sonar, it may get you, so your obvious goal is to keep your distance from escorts. Obvious, this can be
difficult trying to attack.

Depth: the deeper you go, the harder it is for sonar to pick you up. The problem with this of course, you can't attack when deep. However,
late war, you mess up, sonar can pick you up about as deep as you can go. Early war, go deep enough, you can pretty much avoid sonar.

Weather/Waves: The rougher the seas, harder for sonar to pick you up. You can about get by with murder in high seas.

Enemy Speed: The faster they go, harder for them to pick you up, but not much advantage here in game.

Sub Profile: You want to keep your sub narrow to sonar. If you leave your broadside open to a escort, much easier for him to pick you up, than if you were narrow. {This is very important) Often, just getting narrow to the ship pinging you, you'll hear pinging stop. A big mistake many make is attacking from the flank, leaving their broadside open to the flank escort. You're better to come in between the front and flank escort at a 45 degree angle, shoot, then turn your nose toward or away from the flank escort. When I attack a large convoy, I'll come in from the front straight,
about 700 yards to the side of the lead escort. As he gets close, I keep turning my nose towards him until he passes and I'm in his baffles. I can then pop up in the middle of the group and shoot bows and sterns with no escorts near. One trick that helps you get up fast to scope depth if you're deep, is to blow tanks. You'll rise fast, so at about 100 ft, reset to scope depth so you don't pop out of the water. This works if you need to attack a large ship in the front, that may otherwise pass you if you come up normally. The good thing about attacking in the middle of the convoy is you can use ships to block escorts, some people {using the cheat cam} will even hide beneath ships following their paths. I try to attack the front and move away evading and pop up again and attack the rear ships.

Thermal Layer: Staying below the thermal layer reduces effect of sonar.

Enemy Crew Rating: Course, you don't know if you're dealing with a poor crew or a highly skilled elite crew. However, you play long enough, you'll learn when you're up against the tough guys.

Think before you attack. You basically have two choices to deal with sonar, stay outside of the escort screen and shoot longer range or
penetrate screen and get in close. The size of the convoy really is the deciding factor. If it's small, if you dive deep, stay narrow and evade the escorts, the ships may get past you before you can get back to scope depth. If it's a large group, like those in RSRD, much easier to penetrate and come up and still have plenty of targets. Look at the group. I try to ID the escorts to see what I'm dealing with. Determine the distance
between escorts, what is your best path in staying narrow, which targets do you want, what's your escape plan?

Before you go in, you have to ask yourself, what factors are in my favor? If seas are calm, water shallow with a good escort screen, you're asking for trouble. You want to stack values in your favor. Still, it may be a choice do you attack, wait or let the group go? The most dangerous thing you could do is attack a group with 5 mean escorts in shallow seas in calm water.

With some mods, the best you can do is get your attack off before you get pinged. Once you shoot, escorts are coming to find you. For the most
part they will do patterns around where your torps spawned. If you're good, you can get your shots off and put enough distance from where you
shot and they'll never find you. Still, many times they will get a contact on you and it becomes a matter of proper invasion and damage control,
which is another topic.

Keep in mind, if they get a contact on you, they will hunt for a set period of time, even if they lose contact with you. For instance, you get pinged, but do everything right and they lose contact, pinging stops, but they will still hunt for a set time limit. Let's say it's 30 minutes. If they gain contact again, the timer restarts. Mods differ on the time limit. So if you escape, don't do something stupid and let them get a contact on you, stay silent, deep and narrow, working your way from them. A big mistake some make is they get 1000 yards or so from where the escorts are hunting, then speed up, come up to scope to take a look, then get heard and the hunt starts all over.

Course, this is just sonar, you also have to deal with passive listening, visuals, radar, etc....

[harishrajan96]

How to escape a destroyer which is depth charging me I never seem to lose then always find me and drop those idiotic drums

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by harishrajan96

Please suggest a good way of getting inside a convoy by inside I mean breaching the escort sonar ability...I read somewhere that diving deep down below the thermal layer and the coming to periscope depth and firing at the convoy was the "default" tactic but I always seem to catch the destroyers attention..

Well mostly because the game has escorts always pinging, even if they cant hear you, so if not deep enough and their beam hits you, you start hearing it.Late war their beam goes pretty deep.The SH 4 AIFix in downloads section is what I see as a must.This stops them from always pinging(much more realistic) where they list, it enables you to get closer and inside the screen.Once they detect you, they go active and will ping you, but it keeps them from having amazing ability to detect you.I am able(as most subs did) to get inside the screen submerged.Idea being, easier approach, but all hell breaks loose once you start blowing things up.

[harishrajan96]

Can you give me the link for this AIFix

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by harishrajan96

How to escape a destroyer which is depth charging me I never seem to lose then always find me and drop those idiotic drums

The typical evasion most do is, when it makes a run, hit flank speed. They basically drop on top of you, so if you're deep enough, if you go flank, by the time they reach your depth, they will be behind you. Some people throw a hard turn, but I prefer a small S turn, turn hard one direction and then turn hard back the other. This will get you out of the way of those roll offs. After the run is finished, go back silent, keep working yourself out of the death circle.

Main thing, running slow when they're pinging, they'll bust you. Speed is your friend.

Another tactic I use when I'm deep when they drop, I hit flank and blow tanks. This causes you to rise really fast and charges will drop below and behind you. I'll get to about 200 ft, then go back down.

Just know vet and elite escorts can be tough, come in from angles, attack together.

Don't know if you use the cam, but try cutting it off, it's really fun being stuck in your sub not knowing what's going on up top. Pay attention to sound.

[harishrajan96]

I noticed one thing while I was infiltrating a naval base there was thus destroyer go I circles patrolling I approached him and fired a torpedo and it missed then this destroyer stopped and I thought I had him as soon as I fired a fish he put a pedal to metal...but still he never found me :P

[harishrajan96]

Wats up with these destroyer stopping and running ?

[Armistead]

Often they will slow or stop so they can listen. If a couple escorts are attacking you, sometimes one will ping, the other listen.