Syria - Another Red Line

[Armistead]

Seems Syria is using chemical weapons, which was another famous political red line. John McCain is raging to do something, but he's a warmonger. So what should we do if anything, no fly zone, leave it to the UN?

Many of the rebels are radical terroist, I don't see how we arm the rebels. To me, this is a no win situation for the US, best we stay out of it.

[Catfish]

Fresh news from radio transmitter Gleiwitz ..

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Armistead

To me, this is a no win situation for the US, best we stay out of it.

We don't know how to do that.

[Wolferz]

Send in the Clones.

[Skybird]

So far neither France, wo claimed the use of chemicals last week, nor the US have given, released, demonstrated their evidence.

Obama is weaseling so far, wanting to be seen as not avoiding his (extremely stupid) red line statement, but also not getting engaged in a seriously meant military operation.

Delivering some rebel groups light infantry weapons, will not score a change in the course the conflict now is going. Only anti air capacity could give them that. However, giving them robust and modern AW missiles, is out of the question. It is stupid to deliver any of the factions there modern weapons, they will end up getting pointed at Israel and Western soldiers sooner or later.

Leaves the enforcement of a no fly zone. The Russian will love it, and it could end with US and Russian units exchanging fire. Russia can influence things regarding the Western state of things in Afghanistan, but probably cannot stand a robust military confrontation in the Med. If they could, than the role of the US in the Med should be considered as over since a long time now.

I personally would - if I am forced to give any assistance - chose the no fly zone, and play it rockhard on the Russians, they have no moral argument after the messy role they played in Syria. Before that, I would pull out my US troops from Afghanistan, and that means: in a hurried rush. If some endlessly wellmeaning Europeans still want to stay there after I (as the US) had left, then let them: they should have understood by now what time the clocks are showing there. The naval assets of 6th fleet and its carriers should enable the US to run a flight zone operation by itself, even without NATO support. If it cannot, then one would wonder what role the 6th ever hoped to play in any war in the Med anyway. Regarding the Russians: to hell with them. I would not cry to see them loosing their base in Syria.

The light weapons delivery now hinted at by the US, could as well be payed for by the Saudis, why the US tax payer should pay the bill, is beyond me.

Damn Hezbollah, their fighters gain plenty of combat experience and they really made the difference in favour of Assad, and brought the war back on Assad's track. Should be a great warning to Israel. They should have gone extinct in 2006.

Why the West should favour the rebels to gain the upper hands, I still cannot see, however. They are as brutal and barbaric as the regime, it seems to me.

[Oberon]

Have those S-300s landed in Syria yet? Could make an NFZ messy to implement.

[Catfish]

So far neither France, wo claimed the use of chemicals last week, nor the US have given, released, demonstrated their evidence.

No problem, just insert another text and country (dubbing):



On a more serious note, i am not sure any other regime after Assad will be better - if you look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt etc..
And Assad protected the christian population .. not going unnoticed by certain groups there.

Let's just hope with Russia's and other's interests Syria will not become another Serbia ..

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Armistead

...John McCain is raging to do something, but he's a warmonger...

Obama moves to arm Syrian rebels as Assad gains upper hand:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...459_story.html

US says it will arm Syrian rebels following chemical weapons tests:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ons-us-confirm

Hezbollah leader says will keep fighting in Syria:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95D0P820130614

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Have those S-300s landed in Syria yet? Could make an NFZ messy to implement.

Probably not, Israeli experts said that Assad was just boasting, and that training of the crew would take several months, and that Israeli intel seems to be at ease - which seems to indicate that the missiles, different to Assad'S claim, so fra have not arrived.

Of course, enforcing an NFZ includes to take out any AD that could interfere. I though that must not be mentioned.

A german newspaper this morning mentioned those 3 or 4 submarines the US have changed to be cruise missile carriers, with huge numbers of missiles aboard. These could sweep airfields and missile sites before fighters start to patrol.

And what about drones - rumour says they became quite popular recently...

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Let's just hope with Russia's and other's interests Syria will not become another Serbia ..

Slowly becoming a region powerhouse despite corruption and crime ??
Russia helped Serbia while europe was treating it like a foreign policy punching bag. Nationalism is still going strong there because after the wars it was still being attacked from all sides. Something the Russians actually tried to calm down whille europe and US were doing the best they could to even increase internal tensions.

Syria would do very well to become another Serbia. Post Millosevich that is

[mapuc]

Remembering an article made by an danish politician and coming from Syria Naser Khader.

He's working hard for us to give the right side of the fighting groups weapons. They should according to him, be for a democracy Syria with free election free speech a.s.o

If every of these fighting groups had the same thought of where they want Syria to be in the future, then I see no problems giving them support of any kind.

However....from what I have seen and heard from different news agency it's the opposite-about 95% of those who's fighting Assad, want's a sharia government in Syria.

I say as Skybird do-Stay out of this mess

Markus

[Schroeder]

I say we should completely stay out of it. We have no business down there and I really don't see why I should prefer one side over the other!
But it seems we never learn from past mistakes.

[HW3]

Every time we stick our nose into another country's business, it comes back bloody.

[Red October1984]

The Middle East needs Natural Selection in a bad way.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Probably not, Israeli experts said that Assad was just boasting, and that training of the crew would take several months, and that Israeli intel seems to be at ease - which seems to indicate that the missiles, different to Assad'S claim, so fra have not arrived.

Of course, enforcing an NFZ includes to take out any AD that could interfere. I though that must not be mentioned.

A german newspaper this morning mentioned those 3 or 4 submarines the US have changed to be cruise missile carriers, with huge numbers of missiles aboard. These could sweep airfields and missile sites before fighters start to patrol.

And what about drones - rumour says they became quite popular recently...

Well, true, the S-300 isn't exactly a golden shield, but it would probably be one of the most recently made weapons systems the US has gone up against since at least the Serbian war I'd have said, off hand that is.
TLAMs are always a popular opening method in western wars, so they'll probably start with those, and take the S-300s out before they are even ready to roll.
I doubt Russia will do anything other than grumble (pardon the pun) and likewise China. They can't really still be seen to support Assad if clear and incontravertable evidence that he is using chemical weapons comes to light, which admittedly it has not yet, but they're working on it, be sure.