Tactical Question

MarkCt · 05-22-13, 10:28 PM

Im heading back to Midway with three Torpedios left, two forward and one aft. I just came upon a convoy of 6 merchants and it looks like two destroyers. The de's are to the left and rear of the convoy and I'm heading head on.

I have the game saved at this point because this is going to get real involved once I start in. Now would you attack one or two of the merchants and try to creep away or would you try to hit one of the destroyers to give you better odds getting away? It's a real nice setup with two lines of four ships and no escorts in front.

I'm playing TMO so you know they're going to find me no matter what. It's just a matter of what combination to shoot at.

cdrsubron7 · 05-22-13, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCt

Im heading back to Midway with three Torpedios left, two forward and one aft. I just came upon a convoy of 6 merchants and it looks like two destroyers. The de's are to the left and rear of the convoy and I'm heading head on.

I have the game saved at this point because this is going to get real involved once I start in. Now would you attack one or two of the merchants and try to creep away or would you try to hit one of the destroyers to give you better odds getting away? It's a real nice setup with two lines of four ships and no escorts in front.

I'm playing TMO so you know they're going to find me no matter what. It's just a matter of what combination to shoot at.

With only three fish onboard your time on offense will be very limited. Pick out the biggest merchant you have a decent shot on and fire both fish forward at the target, then pull the plug and head deep. You probably won't have time to reverse course to bring your loan stern tube to bear, so don't take the risk. Hopefully, your two fish will be enough to make a kill or at least bring the merchant to a dead stop. After avoiding the escorts you should be able to finish the straggler off. If by some change your two fish forward are Mark 18s, the escorts may not even find you.

Red October1984 · 05-22-13, 11:42 PM

Find the biggest, heaviest merchant and shoot your Bow torpedoes. Turn your tail and get the hell out of there keeping your Aft torpedo for Self-Defense

Redmane · 05-23-13, 12:11 AM

I pretty much agree with the two replies already posted. However, 2 torpedos, depending on what size your target is, may not be enough to finish it off, especially if one malfunctions in some way. Also, I'm not sure what year it may be. It sounds like it could be fairly early in the war, as 2 escorts for 6 merchants is a bit light on protection for that many ships. If you are able to launch while the escorts are still out of position, there's a chance you can sink a target and get away without the escorts ever making contact on you. Also, what is the sea state? Rough or calm or in between? Rough water will make it much harder for the escorts to find and track you. If you can manage it, there is also a way to launch all 3 of your remaining fish on a large target. If you can get in close and take up a course parallel to it, the torpedos will be able to make the turn and still get to the target, though the gyro angles are pretty high. I've been able to do this before, and its kind of fun to get one last kill and return to base with empty tubes.

boonie · 05-23-13, 01:58 AM

manly answer will be:
1 torp for each destroyer, sometimes they survive 1 torp, but u have an aft torp.

after that all the merchants are belong to deck gun.

for inspiration watch this:

TorpX · 05-23-13, 02:01 AM

Agree with cdrsubron7. I seldom mess with escorts, unless there is a shortage of "proper" targets.

Bubblehead1980 · 05-23-13, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCt

Im heading back to Midway with three Torpedios left, two forward and one aft. I just came upon a convoy of 6 merchants and it looks like two destroyers. The de's are to the left and rear of the convoy and I'm heading head on.

I have the game saved at this point because this is going to get real involved once I start in. Now would you attack one or two of the merchants and try to creep away or would you try to hit one of the destroyers to give you better odds getting away? It's a real nice setup with two lines of four ships and no escorts in front.

I'm playing TMO so you know they're going to find me no matter what. It's just a matter of what combination to shoot at.

Merchants

Armistead · 05-23-13, 02:27 PM

Merchants...

I would just fire the two at the largest target and evade, saving the aft. You may miss, have a dud or two may not sink it, so you'll have one to finish it off. If you want to be risky, try a 45 degree approach, so you'll be halfway turned around, fire two at one, come around and fire stern at the other. If you don't sink them, maybe you'll damage them enough they'll fall way behind and you can finish them with the deckgun.

The ships could be loaded with ammo. If you know what cargo looks like, such as ammo crates on deck, one will do the trick.

merc4ulfate · 05-23-13, 10:32 PM

Gee so hear you have a voice that will not agree with any of them.

Find the largest ship. Your coming head on like you said and the escorts are aft of the convoy. Move as close as possible. I have gotten within 900 yards of a DE and not been heard because I do one thing and do it often.

I maneuver in front of the convoy or Task Force. I plot their course and lay less than 1000 yards off of it. Since you have three fish two forward and one aft your going to fire all three at the same target at the same time. It will sink it and your will be out of there quick.

Imagine the target tract, now imagine your 500 yards off the tract at a 45 degree angle. Your at all stop, rigged for silent running and have already opened all three doors. Your sitting and waiting. When the target is at 1000 yards from your center point you should have a good solution for forward and aft fish from that point. Fire the aft fish first. Since your head on it will take longer to come out, turn and go on it's heading. Wait five second after your aft tube is empty and fire your front fish.

Crash dive, all ahead flank and steer toward the same heading as the convoy. Their sound will muffle you a bit as you dive so the DE's coming from behind the convoy will have a harder time hearing you. Maintain flank until you have reached your desired depth or after two or three minutes have pasted which ever comes first.

If you have no damage from earlier encounters I say bottom the depth gauge out. It can take it. Silent running for 4 or 5 minutes and change course 45 degrees towards the north or south of the convoy. Pick the direction with less sound traffic. Stay on course for ten minutes then turn another 45 degrees in the same direction as before unless the escorts are heard coming down that lane. If they are put your rudder 45 degrees on the other side.

If you choose to have your heading the same as the convoy for the attack then your not going to have to do a 180 and you should fire the bow first then aft.

MarkCt · 05-23-13, 10:46 PM

Well I was going to take your advise and go for the closest merchant. As I was slowly rising from about 250 ft to PD, one of the destroyers changed course and cut between me and the ship I was going to shoot. When I raised the scope he was about 900 yards away and cutting across my bow. I took the shot at him and when it hit he exploded in flames but instead of continuing on course he turned right for me again blocking my shot.

I was able to get the other bow shot off hitting the lead ship and putting it on a severe list to starboard. I was able to dive down almost under the ship and come up on the other side to finish off with a stern shot.

It's a good thing I hit that other destroyer because the other one hounded me for hours.

One strange thing is that the enemy will leave the rest of the convoy unprotected and go after you while while the other ships sail off. I was lucky as this convoy only had two escorts guarding it.

merc4ulfate · 05-24-13, 07:45 AM

**"One strange thing is that the enemy will leave the rest of the convoy unprotected and go after you while while the other ships sail off. I was lucky as this convoy only had two escorts guarding it. "**

This is why some boats working with others would deliberately allow themselves to be seen and hunted. While distracting the escorts other boats would move in for the kill.

TorpX · 05-25-13, 12:19 AM

Quote:

One strange thing is that the enemy will leave the rest of the convoy unprotected and go after you while while the other ships sail off.

I wouldn't consider this strange. An escorting ship really only has two ways to protect a ship:
Hurl itself in front of the torpedoes (not good!).

Attack enemy sub (much better!).

If it attacks the sub, it might sink it, and eliminate the danger, outright. Failing that, it can at least hold down the sub, and give the friendly ships time to exit the danger area. Of course, the escorts can sail on with the convoy, to "protect" it, but if they aren't going to make attacks, they are more like floating scarecrows, than any real protection.

Most of the time, the escorts would split the difference, and make counterattacks with gusto, then after some interval had passed, or the trail had gone cold, break off the hunt, and rejoin the convoy.

Remember, most USN sub attacks were one boat affairs. The "wolf pack" business didn't really get going until pretty late. Even then, it wasn't easy to coordinate an attack with multiple submarines.

CptLoonee · 05-28-13, 11:31 AM

If you get close enough, you don't have to turn tail to fire your stern torp. You can boomerang it pretty effectively. I have fired all 10 into the Yamato/Musashi before.

I'd set up a Dick O'Kane style attack (doesn't have to be a 90 degree shot, but that makes it easy) and fire both bow tubes. Reset for stern tube and fire it, maybe with a degree or so shift to account for the time it takes to reset the solution.

MarkCt · 05-29-13, 10:45 PM

Because both escorts were to the rear I found myself between both lines of ships. My plan was to shoot two at the first ship and the rear tube at one behind me and to go deep. But the destroyer decided to chage course so I really had no choice. It still felt good taking him out and still getting the other ship. Two escorts would have hammered me.

Armistead · 05-30-13, 11:35 AM

A good surface tactic to use is wait until night and shoot a M14 from about 8000 yards by radar setup, turn and run working around to the convoys front or other flank. The escorts should see the torp and will come searching down it's track. This will put them far away from the convoy, go in and attack, leave, rinse and repeat.

05-22-13, 10:28 PM	#1
MarkCt Electrician's Mate Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 133 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Tactical Question Im heading back to Midway with three Torpedios left, two forward and one aft. I just came upon a convoy of 6 merchants and it looks like two destroyers. The de's are to the left and rear of the convoy and I'm heading head on. I have the game saved at this point because this is going to get real involved once I start in. Now would you attack one or two of the merchants and try to creep away or would you try to hit one of the destroyers to give you better odds getting away? It's a real nice setup with two lines of four ships and no escorts in front. I'm playing TMO so you know they're going to find me no matter what. It's just a matter of what combination to shoot at.

05-22-13, 11:42 PM	#3
Red October1984 Airplane Nerd Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 6,243 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Find the biggest, heaviest merchant and shoot your Bow torpedoes. Turn your tail and get the hell out of there keeping your Aft torpedo for Self-Defense __________________

05-23-13, 12:11 AM	#4
Redmane Torpedoman Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Somewhere in the Pacific Posts: 113 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Pretty much agree I pretty much agree with the two replies already posted. However, 2 torpedos, depending on what size your target is, may not be enough to finish it off, especially if one malfunctions in some way. Also, I'm not sure what year it may be. It sounds like it could be fairly early in the war, as 2 escorts for 6 merchants is a bit light on protection for that many ships. If you are able to launch while the escorts are still out of position, there's a chance you can sink a target and get away without the escorts ever making contact on you. Also, what is the sea state? Rough or calm or in between? Rough water will make it much harder for the escorts to find and track you. If you can manage it, there is also a way to launch all 3 of your remaining fish on a large target. If you can get in close and take up a course parallel to it, the torpedos will be able to make the turn and still get to the target, though the gyro angles are pretty high. I've been able to do this before, and its kind of fun to get one last kill and return to base with empty tubes. __________________ REDMANE Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bullet-proof. -V

05-23-13, 02:27 PM	#8
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Merchants... I would just fire the two at the largest target and evade, saving the aft. You may miss, have a dud or two may not sink it, so you'll have one to finish it off. If you want to be risky, try a 45 degree approach, so you'll be halfway turned around, fire two at one, come around and fire stern at the other. If you don't sink them, maybe you'll damage them enough they'll fall way behind and you can finish them with the deckgun. The ships could be loaded with ammo. If you know what cargo looks like, such as ammo crates on deck, one will do the trick. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

05-30-13, 11:35 AM	#15
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	A good surface tactic to use is wait until night and shoot a M14 from about 8000 yards by radar setup, turn and run working around to the convoys front or other flank. The escorts should see the torp and will come searching down it's track. This will put them far away from the convoy, go in and attack, leave, rinse and repeat. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

05-23-13, 01:58 AM	#5
boonie Electrician's Mate Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 134 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	manly answer will be: 1 torp for each destroyer, sometimes they survive 1 torp, but u have an aft torp. after that all the merchants are belong to deck gun. for inspiration watch this:

05-23-13, 02:01 AM	#6
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Agree with cdrsubron7. I seldom mess with escorts, unless there is a shortage of "proper" targets.

05-23-13, 10:32 PM	#9
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	Gee so hear you have a voice that will not agree with any of them. Find the largest ship. Your coming head on like you said and the escorts are aft of the convoy. Move as close as possible. I have gotten within 900 yards of a DE and not been heard because I do one thing and do it often. I maneuver in front of the convoy or Task Force. I plot their course and lay less than 1000 yards off of it. Since you have three fish two forward and one aft your going to fire all three at the same target at the same time. It will sink it and your will be out of there quick. Imagine the target tract, now imagine your 500 yards off the tract at a 45 degree angle. Your at all stop, rigged for silent running and have already opened all three doors. Your sitting and waiting. When the target is at 1000 yards from your center point you should have a good solution for forward and aft fish from that point. Fire the aft fish first. Since your head on it will take longer to come out, turn and go on it's heading. Wait five second after your aft tube is empty and fire your front fish. Crash dive, all ahead flank and steer toward the same heading as the convoy. Their sound will muffle you a bit as you dive so the DE's coming from behind the convoy will have a harder time hearing you. Maintain flank until you have reached your desired depth or after two or three minutes have pasted which ever comes first. If you have no damage from earlier encounters I say bottom the depth gauge out. It can take it. Silent running for 4 or 5 minutes and change course 45 degrees towards the north or south of the convoy. Pick the direction with less sound traffic. Stay on course for ten minutes then turn another 45 degrees in the same direction as before unless the escorts are heard coming down that lane. If they are put your rudder 45 degrees on the other side. If you choose to have your heading the same as the convoy for the attack then your not going to have to do a 180 and you should fire the bow first then aft.

05-23-13, 10:46 PM	#10
MarkCt Electrician's Mate Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 133 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Well I was going to take your advise and go for the closest merchant. As I was slowly rising from about 250 ft to PD, one of the destroyers changed course and cut between me and the ship I was going to shoot. When I raised the scope he was about 900 yards away and cutting across my bow. I took the shot at him and when it hit he exploded in flames but instead of continuing on course he turned right for me again blocking my shot. I was able to get the other bow shot off hitting the lead ship and putting it on a severe list to starboard. I was able to dive down almost under the ship and come up on the other side to finish off with a stern shot. It's a good thing I hit that other destroyer because the other one hounded me for hours. One strange thing is that the enemy will leave the rest of the convoy unprotected and go after you while while the other ships sail off. I was lucky as this convoy only had two escorts guarding it.

05-24-13, 07:45 AM	#11
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	"One strange thing is that the enemy will leave the rest of the convoy unprotected and go after you while while the other ships sail off. I was lucky as this convoy only had two escorts guarding it. " This is why some boats working with others would deliberately allow themselves to be seen and hunted. While distracting the escorts other boats would move in for the kill.

05-28-13, 11:31 AM	#13
CptLoonee Helmsman Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 110 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	If you get close enough, you don't have to turn tail to fire your stern torp. You can boomerang it pretty effectively. I have fired all 10 into the Yamato/Musashi before. I'd set up a Dick O'Kane style attack (doesn't have to be a 90 degree shot, but that makes it easy) and fire both bow tubes. Reset for stern tube and fire it, maybe with a degree or so shift to account for the time it takes to reset the solution.

05-29-13, 10:45 PM	#14
MarkCt Electrician's Mate Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 133 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Because both escorts were to the rear I found myself between both lines of ships. My plan was to shoot two at the first ship and the rear tube at one behind me and to go deep. But the destroyer decided to chage course so I really had no choice. It still felt good taking him out and still getting the other ship. Two escorts would have hammered me.