Random Sighting Distance?

[sharkbit]

One thing that I've noticed about this game and has bugged me at times is that it seems that when the visibility says 9km or whatever the visibility happens to be, you spot ships or aircraft at that range, almost exactly. It almost makes things pretty predictable. I recently created a single mission to experiment with this and my early results seem to bear this out, although I'm still early on in testing.

There are many accounts of actual U-boats being caught by suprise on the surface by aircraft, even in good weather. The watch crew may have been daydreaming, the aircraft came out of the sun, or hid in clouds. That doesn't seem to be simulated very well in game.

My experience has always been that my watch crew spots the aircraft with plenty of time to dive. I'm late in 1943 in a career and maybe I haven't had the chance to really be suprised by radar equipped aircraft. That random possibility of being suprised intrigues me. Whether it costs me a sub or not, so be it. I would like to experience the possibility of that kind of suprise.

So my question is does anyone know if there is any randomness to the distance that aircraft and ships are spotted or is there a way to mod this in?

Maybe hsie can work some magic with his hardcode fix?

A thought came to me last night that maybe I can randomize the possibility with a good old fashioned dice roll. My initial thought was that when a aircraft was spotted, I would roll two dice and delay my dive by the amount of time in seconds of the dice roll x10. Roll a 7 and I don't hit the "C" key for 70 seconds.
Of course I need to experiment with that. The time factor or dice might need to be tweaked but it might work if there is no other possibility. Other roll modifiers to the roll can be put in, maybe based on year or some other factor.

Thanks to an idea by Sailor Steve, I already use dice to come up with some other actions that add to personal realism settings and this might be one more thing to make the game a little less predictable.

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

There are many accounts of actual U-boats being caught by suprise on the surface by aircraft, even in good weather. The watch crew may have been daydreaming, the aircraft came out of the sun, or hid in clouds. That doesn't seem to be simulated very well in game.

My experience has always been that my watch crew spots the aircraft with plenty of time to dive. I'm late in 1943 in a career and maybe I haven't had the chance to really be suprised by radar equipped aircraft. That random possibility of being suprised intrigues me. Whether it costs me a sub or not, so be it. I would like to experience the possibility of that kind of suprise.

This has looooong been a gripe of mine. The way planes are modeled is just not conducive to a realistic U-boat experience. You're right - they would approach from high up from the sunward side of the boat so that the lookout wouldn't see them. I remember reading in Edward Beach's books (Dust on the Sea, if I remember right) that radar equipped planes would pulse their radar to prevent radar detector equipped boats from realizing just how close they were.

I'd love for planes to be an almost instant death encounter, but as they are now, they're a minor annoyance.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I remember reading in Edward Beach's books (Dust on the Sea, if I remember right) that radar equipped planes would pulse their radar to prevent radar detector equipped boats from realizing just how close they were.

You're right-it is "Dust on the Sea". Probably one of my favorite submarine reads, along with the other two in the "trilogy"- "Run Silent, Run Deep" and "Cold is the Sea".

[MantiBrutalis]

Very strange thought... I use hsie's patch and GWX and half the time Swordfish bombers tend to surprise me off the Irish coast with barely enough time to dive the IXB, often resulting in damage when bombs fall on top of my head just after I dived...

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Thanks to an idea by Sailor Steve, I already use dice to come up with some other actions that add to personal realism settings and this might be one more thing to make the game a little less predictable.

Interesting idea... Link? PM? I need to know! Tell me!!! NOW!!!!!

[Hitman]

The announced visibility range matches the actual visibility range set in the scene.dat

Wether or not your crew actually sees something rendered in the theoretically visible space is a matter of the sensor settings, and you can easily make changes to that. For example at night it is very easy to overdo things and make your crew blind to ships that are in front of you.

The only reason that the detection matches the visibility is because modders have worked hard to ensure that, as it is highly annoying to be able to see yourself something that your crew (Of theoretically trained military lookouts keeping a watch) doesn't.

If what you want is to make aircraft less visible, play with the object size factor. Planes are smaller than ships, so you have a margin to lower the detection of them before the ship detection routine is screwed.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by MantiBrutalis

Interesting idea... Link? PM? I need to know! Tell me!!! NOW!!!!!

I've read in a post or two that Sailor Steves patrols his assigned grid for a week and then rolls a die. That will determine if he can change grid squares or not. Really limits the tonnage though, as in real life. If you want 50000 ton patrols every time, that is not the thing to do.

I've started doing it as well.

Another thing I do with dice rolls is if I get a radio report of a convoy, I roll 2 dice. If I get less than a 12(box cars is an automatic no-intercept, regardless of modifiers-transmission lost), I assume I am ordered to pursue that convoy. I modify the dice roll by how far from the reported position I am(+1 for every 25 km-I've been playing around with different ranges) and whether I am ahead or behind the convoy(-2 if I am within 30 degrees ahead and either side of the reported course, and +2 if I am 30 degrees either side of the course but astern). If the radio report fades away and reappears later, I re-roll.
Of course, being a game, I call captain's initiative at times and try to intercept the convoy, orders be damned.

Before I started using h.sie's hardcode fixes with wolfpacks, if I would be the first to spot a convoy(not by radio report) I would be the shadower, send contact reports when I could, and roll a die every few hours to see if I was released for an attack. I only toyed with it a little. With h.sie's hardcode fix and wolfpacks, I use that process instead.

Just a couple of ideas using dice to randomize things a bit and limit the freedom that we computer Kaleun's have.

[MantiBrutalis]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

I've read in a post or two that Sailor Steves patrols his assigned grid for a week and then rolls a die. That will determine if he can change grid squares or not.

This sounds very, very nice to my realism-driven mind. Might try to do that, maybe tweak the time based on U-boat type. Also what came to my mind this fast, dice could decide the following grid.

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Another thing I do with dice rolls is if I get a radio report of a convoy, I roll 2 dice...

Nice one too! Might want to try that, maybe using range to interception point instead of range to convoy. Visibility modifiers come to mind...

Originally Posted by sharkbit

Before I started using h.sie's hardcode fixes with wolfpacks...

Never ever BdU answered that the wolfpack is coming. It does work, I am just not lucky enough.

I might come up with other things, I tend to include dice throws to everything...


What was the OP again?
Sorry, I will stop now. sharkbit, you can PM me if you wish to discuss this matter. Or even start a new thread...