F-35 "Will get pilots SHOT DOWN"

iambecomelife · 03-06-13, 02:14 PM

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ots-shot-down/

Strange that with all their funding & expertise they forget about simple things like being able to see outside the fighter's canopy.

And to those who say dogfighting is obsolete, look what happened to the USAF and USN in Vietnam? Neglecting dogfights because "missiles would take care of everything" was a grievous error. It probably cost several pilots their lives back then - I expect the same thing to happen once more.

There are other problems, too, like a visual display that's mega-expensive and mega-unreliable. My tax dollars at work!

Platapus · 03-06-13, 02:50 PM

I remember watching a documentary on pilot information overload. Even back in Viet Nam there were instances of pilots turning electronic stuff off so they could concentrate looking outside.

Who the hell was working the system requirements for the F-35? Probably the user requirements were overridden by political appointees.

Oh well, at least we found out about it before we wasted $1,000,000,000,000 on it.

oh

mookiemookie · 03-06-13, 03:18 PM

Why couldn't you mount a mini 360 degree camera on the top of the cockpit that feeds the video straight to a HUD display in the pilot's helmet? As he looks around, he sees the video feed coming from that direction. Heck, mount one to the underside of the plane too and have software stitch the video feeds into one cohesive display so the pilot could look in any direction and see his cockpit controls in front of him and the ground below him, beside him, behind him, etc. It'd be like he was flying in an invisible plane.

That'd be the way I'd solve that. But what do I know?

MH · 03-06-13, 03:19 PM

A lot has changed since then.
The philosophy is to make it as easy as possible for the pilot to digest the data hence the sensor fusion and easy to interpret mfd"s .
It is all about minimizing work loads.
Besides that we really know nothing about f35.
The article posted says nothing but draws big concoctions.

Bilge_Rat · 03-06-13, 04:13 PM

omygod the pilot cant see out the back.

These F35 critics are hilarious....

name one single seat jet fighter where the pilot is able to check his own six while straped into his seat and wearing a flight helmet.

There is a technique for that, its called using your wingman...

Seth8530 · 03-06-13, 05:10 PM

I would not call the F-35 doomed to get pilots killed just because the currently in development helmet set still has some bugs. Neither would I call it doomed because part of the seat gets in the way of visibility. These are all things that are being worked on and fine tuned... Expensive... yes... Doomed to failure.. No.

TLAM Strike · 03-06-13, 05:21 PM

Betcha it has better rear visibility than the MiG-21!

They had to put a damn periscope on that thing just so the pilot could check his '6'.

But its not like the MiG-21 was successful or anything; they only built 11,500 of the things!

Jimbuna · 03-06-13, 06:16 PM

Cheapest option....add a rear tail gunner

eddie · 03-06-13, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Cheapest option....add a rear tail gunner

LOL!!!

Red October1984 · 03-06-13, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Cheapest option....add a rear tail gunner

Haha!

A tail gunner....that fires missiles....

We may have an idea here...

em2nought · 03-06-13, 09:42 PM

Luckily for us we can't afford any, unfortunately that won't stop us.

iambecomelife · 03-06-13, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Betcha it has better rear visibility than the MiG-21!

They had to put a damn periscope on that thing just so the pilot could check his '6'.

But its not like the MiG-21 was successful or anything; they only built 11,500 of the things!

It's interesting you mention the MiG - 21. I read an American F-4 pilot's recollection of a dogfight in Vietnam; the MiG-21 pilot he fought kept swerving nervously because he could not get a good view of his "six". Maybe his model wasn't equipped with the periscope, or I guess he just panicked and forgot in the heat of battle? In the end, the MiG-21 was shot down.

I get pretty nervous myself when, in flight sims, I'm flying a "razorback" like the Bf-109, P-40, P-51B, etc. At least I can restart - unlike that poor MiG jockey...

TLAM Strike · 03-07-13, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red October1984

A tail gunner....that fires missiles....

We may have an idea here...

Flight of the Old Dog.

Stealhead · 03-07-13, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

name one single seat jet fighter where the pilot is able to check his own six while straped into his seat and wearing a flight helmet.

F-16,F-15,A-10,F/A-18,F-22,MiG-29,Su-27,Typhoon(the modern one),Rafale,Grippen and even the Harrier.

Don't forget that fighter pilots are in top shape and you are only needing to get glance of peripheral vision.Also in a dogfight you are always changing heading to make yourself a harder target and to allow checking of six.

HunterICX · 03-07-13, 04:49 AM

Someone on your six? Well deal with it this way:

HunterICX

03-06-13, 02:14 PM	#1
iambecomelife Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,706 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	F-35 "Will get pilots SHOT DOWN" http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ots-shot-down/ Strange that with all their funding & expertise they forget about simple things like being able to see outside the fighter's canopy. And to those who say dogfighting is obsolete, look what happened to the USAF and USN in Vietnam? Neglecting dogfights because "missiles would take care of everything" was a grievous error. It probably cost several pilots their lives back then - I expect the same thing to happen once more. There are other problems, too, like a visual display that's mega-expensive and mega-unreliable. My tax dollars at work! __________________ https://www.facebook.com/WolvesoftheKaiser/

03-06-13, 02:50 PM	#2
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I remember watching a documentary on pilot information overload. Even back in Viet Nam there were instances of pilots turning electronic stuff off so they could concentrate looking outside. Who the hell was working the system requirements for the F-35? Probably the user requirements were overridden by political appointees. Oh well, at least we found out about it before we wasted $1,000,000,000,000 on it. oh __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-06-13, 03:18 PM	#3
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Why couldn't you mount a mini 360 degree camera on the top of the cockpit that feeds the video straight to a HUD display in the pilot's helmet? As he looks around, he sees the video feed coming from that direction. Heck, mount one to the underside of the plane too and have software stitch the video feeds into one cohesive display so the pilot could look in any direction and see his cockpit controls in front of him and the ground below him, beside him, behind him, etc. It'd be like he was flying in an invisible plane. That'd be the way I'd solve that. But what do I know? __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

03-06-13, 04:13 PM	#5
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	omygod the pilot cant see out the back. These F35 critics are hilarious.... name one single seat jet fighter where the pilot is able to check his own six while straped into his seat and wearing a flight helmet. There is a technique for that, its called using your wingman... __________________

03-06-13, 05:10 PM	#6
Seth8530 Captain Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 546 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I would not call the F-35 doomed to get pilots killed just because the currently in development helmet set still has some bugs. Neither would I call it doomed because part of the seat gets in the way of visibility. These are all things that are being worked on and fine tuned... Expensive... yes... Doomed to failure.. No. __________________

03-06-13, 03:19 PM	#4
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	A lot has changed since then. The philosophy is to make it as easy as possible for the pilot to digest the data hence the sensor fusion and easy to interpret mfd"s . It is all about minimizing work loads. Besides that we really know nothing about f35. The article posted says nothing but draws big concoctions.

03-06-13, 05:21 PM	#7
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Betcha it has better rear visibility than the MiG-21! They had to put a damn periscope on that thing just so the pilot could check his '6'. But its not like the MiG-21 was successful or anything; they only built 11,500 of the things! __________________

03-06-13, 06:16 PM	#8
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Cheapest option....add a rear tail gunner __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-06-13, 09:42 PM	#11
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,485 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Luckily for us we can't afford any, unfortunately that won't stop us. __________________ em2nought is ecstatic garbage!

03-07-13, 04:49 AM	#15
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Someone on your six? Well deal with it this way: HunterICX __________________