Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

August · 11-21-12, 10:16 AM

Here's some more of what the Democrats mean by "Forward"...

Quote:

A Senate proposal touted as protecting Americans' e-mail privacy has been quietly rewritten, giving government agencies more surveillance power than they possess under current law.

CNET has learned that Patrick Leahy, the influential Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has dramatically reshaped his legislation in response to law enforcement concerns. A vote on his bill, which now authorizes warrantless access to Americans' e-mail, is scheduled for next week.

Leahy's rewritten bill would allow more than 22 agencies -- including the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission -- to access Americans' e-mail, Google Docs files, Facebook wall posts, and Twitter direct messages without a search warrant. It also would give the FBI and Homeland Security more authority, in some circumstances, to gain full access to Internet accounts without notifying either the owner or a judge. (CNET obtained the revised draft from a source involved in the negotiations with Leahy.)

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-bill-re...191930756.html

Jimbuna · 11-21-12, 10:21 AM

Sailor Steve · 11-21-12, 10:50 AM

Hey, as long as it's only the SEC and the FCC, what's the problem? Oh wait...22 agencies? And I was joking. The government has no rights, and this is evil.

Mail is mail, and no one but you has a right to read yours.

yubba · 11-21-12, 11:06 AM

No surprise, the 53 percent of us that didn't vote for Santa Claus, are now the enemy. So what's next,,, they are already trashing the First Amendment what comes after one.???????

Takeda Shingen · 11-21-12, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yubba

53 percent

Um, you mean 48%.

11-21-12, 11:20 AM

Quote:

what comes after one.???????

Twelvty

I can does numbers too like you

Buddahaid · 11-21-12, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yubba

No surprise, the 53 percent of us that didn't vote for Santa Claus, are now the enemy. So what's next,,, they are already trashing the First Amendment what comes after one.???????

Bull! That game ended with The Patriot Act during the Bush years and a Republican Congress. Besides I don't think this is a partisan issue for Congress.

Skybird · 11-21-12, 11:30 AM

Well, US services track and record practically all email traffic worldwide, without asking any other state, judge or foreign citizen for permission. It's just fair that Americans now get the benefit of being serviced the same way. Else they would feel like being discriminated.

mookiemookie · 11-21-12, 01:33 PM

Leahy has dropped his support of this bill.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...eillance-bill/

Takeda Shingen · 11-21-12, 01:51 PM

He did, but it will unfortunately still go up for vote next week. Still, I don't expect it to pass after this firestorm from both the left and right.

Catfish · 11-21-12, 01:58 PM

"It didn't take but probably a week or so after 9/11 that they decided to start spying on the U.S. domestically, on all U.S. citizens they could get."

William Binney, former NSA employee

But it is miltary eavesdropping, does not this automatically makes it all legal and good ?

And "the democrats" signed that ?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...eillance-bill/

This is not about democrats or republicans, politicians are there for 4 years and cannot be trusted anyway.
Who do you think planned and built a 10-year project ?

"National Security Agency chief Gen. Keith Alexander [...] said that the NSA did not have the capability to monitor, inside the United States."

Hey the NSA needs something to do with their billions dollars toys.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/03/22/nsa-spy-hub
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...opol_nsa10.htm

Of course, if you ask what it reall costed, and what it is supposed to do, it is all secret. So much for demcracy and transparency

vienna · 11-21-12, 02:33 PM

What's really interesting is the fact the general US population gets up in arms over congressional actions, yet seems to pay little attention to activities such as Eschelon, etc. While a warrant of some kind in most cases is needed to access personal communications (phone, email, etc.) in the US, agencies like the NSA, CIA and their counterparts in the British Commonwealth and other "client" nations routinely scan each other personal comms and gather information, passing it back and forth among each other in a "trade" situation. As long as the NSA, for example, is not actively scanning domestic comms, they benefit from the "outsider" scanning operations who report back to NSA on their "findings", all the while maintaining the illusion they are not tacitly involved in the scans and therefore not violating US laws and Constitutional rights...

<O>

the_tyrant · 11-21-12, 02:37 PM

The only way to prevent spying on emails is to either host it yourself, or get a trusted friend to do it.

For example, we can all pitch in, and get @subsim.com emails. I personally own an @istolethis.info email

AVGWarhawk · 11-21-12, 02:39 PM

Things like this stem from issues such as the Patraeus scandal where many emails went back and forth. Feds want a open book on emails without getting red tape with warrants.

vienna · 11-21-12, 02:59 PM

Petraeus's position(s) in the government put him in a position where he waives, either by direct consent or by the terms of his employment, any expectation his communications are to be considered "private" and beyond monitoring...

As far as self hosting is concerned, the moment you send an email and it hits any server on its way to the recipient, the email may actually be retained on any and, maybe, all the servers for an undetermined amount of time. Also consider the situation in which you send a "confidential" email on your own selfhost only to have the response sent back to you "quoting" your original email. Anyone monitoring the recipient's email account on a non-selfhosted account now has both sides of the comms. I can't even begin to count the number of times when I have come across loose data and/or information I really shouldn't have seen just because it was "quoted" as part of a long form email. I once particpated in a merger team of two very large utility companies and had to point out I was being "cc"-ed by a person on the joint human resources group who was leaving all previous message from day one as "quotes" in their emails. The two original persons in the comms were leaving somewhat delicate and confidential information in this long stream of "message/response/message response.." and I, and any one else they "cc"-ed could read the data. I always trim away any previous data in emails to which I make a response...

<O>

11-21-12, 10:21 AM	#2
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,502 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-21-12, 10:50 AM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Hey, as long as it's only the SEC and the FCC, what's the problem? Oh wait...22 agencies? And I was joking. The government has no rights, and this is evil. Mail is mail, and no one but you has a right to read yours. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-21-12, 11:30 AM	#8
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Well, US services track and record practically all email traffic worldwide, without asking any other state, judge or foreign citizen for permission. It's just fair that Americans now get the benefit of being serviced the same way. Else they would feel like being discriminated. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-21-12, 01:33 PM	#9
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Leahy has dropped his support of this bill. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...eillance-bill/ __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

11-21-12, 02:33 PM	#12
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	What's really interesting is the fact the general US population gets up in arms over congressional actions, yet seems to pay little attention to activities such as Eschelon, etc. While a warrant of some kind in most cases is needed to access personal communications (phone, email, etc.) in the US, agencies like the NSA, CIA and their counterparts in the British Commonwealth and other "client" nations routinely scan each other personal comms and gather information, passing it back and forth among each other in a "trade" situation. As long as the NSA, for example, is not actively scanning domestic comms, they benefit from the "outsider" scanning operations who report back to NSA on their "findings", all the while maintaining the illusion they are not tacitly involved in the scans and therefore not violating US laws and Constitutional rights... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

11-21-12, 11:06 AM	#4
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	No surprise, the 53 percent of us that didn't vote for Santa Claus, are now the enemy. So what's next,,, they are already trashing the First Amendment what comes after one.???????

11-21-12, 01:51 PM	#10
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	He did, but it will unfortunately still go up for vote next week. Still, I don't expect it to pass after this firestorm from both the left and right.

11-21-12, 01:58 PM	#11
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"It didn't take but probably a week or so after 9/11 that they decided to start spying on the U.S. domestically, on all U.S. citizens they could get." William Binney, former NSA employee But it is miltary eavesdropping, does not this automatically makes it all legal and good ? And "the democrats" signed that ? http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...eillance-bill/ This is not about democrats or republicans, politicians are there for 4 years and cannot be trusted anyway. Who do you think planned and built a 10-year project ? "National Security Agency chief Gen. Keith Alexander [...] said that the NSA did not have the capability to monitor, inside the United States." Hey the NSA needs something to do with their billions dollars toys. http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/03/22/nsa-spy-hub http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...opol_nsa10.htm Of course, if you ask what it reall costed, and what it is supposed to do, it is all secret. So much for demcracy and transparency

11-21-12, 02:37 PM	#13
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	The only way to prevent spying on emails is to either host it yourself, or get a trusted friend to do it. For example, we can all pitch in, and get @subsim.com emails. I personally own an @istolethis.info email __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

11-21-12, 02:39 PM	#14
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,255 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Things like this stem from issues such as the Patraeus scandal where many emails went back and forth. Feds want a open book on emails without getting red tape with warrants.

11-21-12, 02:59 PM	#15
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Petraeus's position(s) in the government put him in a position where he waives, either by direct consent or by the terms of his employment, any expectation his communications are to be considered "private" and beyond monitoring... As far as self hosting is concerned, the moment you send an email and it hits any server on its way to the recipient, the email may actually be retained on any and, maybe, all the servers for an undetermined amount of time. Also consider the situation in which you send a "confidential" email on your own selfhost only to have the response sent back to you "quoting" your original email. Anyone monitoring the recipient's email account on a non-selfhosted account now has both sides of the comms. I can't even begin to count the number of times when I have come across loose data and/or information I really shouldn't have seen just because it was "quoted" as part of a long form email. I once particpated in a merger team of two very large utility companies and had to point out I was being "cc"-ed by a person on the joint human resources group who was leaving all previous message from day one as "quotes" in their emails. The two original persons in the comms were leaving somewhat delicate and confidential information in this long stream of "message/response/message response.." and I, and any one else they "cc"-ed could read the data. I always trim away any previous data in emails to which I make a response... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __