Western government leviathans replaced by iDemocracy?

Skybird · 10-05-12, 06:41 AM

http://www.cityam.com/forum/big-government-may-be-dead-idemocracy-will-reshape-our-lives

I'm sure that this vision of a new way of societies organizing themselves will reveal problem coming from their new structure sooner or later, but at least that will be NEW problems, while the old, known ones maybe would be left behind.

On a more theoretical basis I think that when a system develops and reaches a new, higher level or self-organizing structure and complexity, this new level may bring the remedies and cures for the problems of the former, lower, older level. But only at the cost in introducing new problems that before you did not even imagine to be possible. And these will find their solutions only on the next higher level, and so on and on.

Oberon · 10-05-12, 08:20 AM

That is, how it is, with any system I think, be it political, electrical, social, or mechanical. The new system is better than the old one in that it avoids the problems of the old, but it creates new problems of its own that could not have been foreseen in its creation, or perhaps could have been foreseen and it was decided that the benefits outweigh the deficits.

The system described in the article you link to is certainly a potential way forward, however the problem lies in linking it globally, particularly in things like education. A tailor made syllabus for children could be a potential disaster, with some parents pushing children towards sports, others pushing them towards maths and others pushing them towards personalised religious education in a manner in which has already caused friction between the populace.
However, certainly the internet has affected the education system, to the point which the internet is now a requirement for some childrens homework, in a manner in which it was not when I was at school (a decade ago) which puts a greater burden on the parents to provide an internet access, or at the least access to a internet location (such as a library), and furthermore it puts forward more viewpoints than that offered by the national media which allows for a broadening of minds in some cases and a narrowing of minds in others, depending upon the personality of the individual involved.
At the same time though you will have a great movement against new technology and a fear of the merge of cultures that it brings, a new rise of xenophobia and luddites both in the real world and online which will be stoked by ever smarter viruses and the widening gulf between online religious communities and the rest of what is mostly quite an agnostic web.
However most of the online community will exist in the middle of that, viewing extremes as lunatics and trying to get on with their lives without interference from them.
The sort of process, of moving from a standard democratic system to an 'iDemocracy' cannot happen overnight, but is already happening in some stages, online voting for example, and I think it is a process that is going to happen over the coming decades providing that progress maintains its current rate of advance. Greece, on the other hand, is going to find it hard for that kind of solution to occur, because it lacks the kind of infrastructure needed for a fully online community, furthermore we are still in the transitional stage of the online community, it will be another two generations at least before the global community reaches its full potential as more and more people come online, and even then individual governments will seek to limit and control certain elements of it. Is the internet freer today than it was ten years ago? With people being arrested over comments made on Twitter it's hard to say, it certainly isn't anything like a police state, despite what some may have you believe, but it is an example that the kind of total freedom to say what you want, how you want and do what you want, is not on the internet. There is a freedom within moral boundaries, as there is in real life but not complete and utter freedom (unless you're very good at proxies) which is, primarily, because as online activity becomes bigger, it affects the world outside of the computer screen in a bigger manner, people get hurt by things on the internet, be it emotionally...or in some darker ways, physically. Does this make the internet dangerous? No more than it made the writing press dangerous, but look at the problems that surrounded that when it first appeared.

TLDR? (I don't blame you) This is something that I think, personally, will happen within the next generation or two, but not within a decade...although I may be surprised, certainly the rate of technological advance and its integration into society (particularly through smart phones) would have boggled my mind fifteen years ago. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?

10-05-12, 06:41 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Western government leviathans replaced by iDemocracy? http://www.cityam.com/forum/big-government-may-be-dead-idemocracy-will-reshape-our-lives I'm sure that this vision of a new way of societies organizing themselves will reveal problem coming from their new structure sooner or later, but at least that will be NEW problems, while the old, known ones maybe would be left behind. On a more theoretical basis I think that when a system develops and reaches a new, higher level or self-organizing structure and complexity, this new level may bring the remedies and cures for the problems of the former, lower, older level. But only at the cost in introducing new problems that before you did not even imagine to be possible. And these will find their solutions only on the next higher level, and so on and on. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-05-12, 08:20 AM	#2
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	That is, how it is, with any system I think, be it political, electrical, social, or mechanical. The new system is better than the old one in that it avoids the problems of the old, but it creates new problems of its own that could not have been foreseen in its creation, or perhaps could have been foreseen and it was decided that the benefits outweigh the deficits. The system described in the article you link to is certainly a potential way forward, however the problem lies in linking it globally, particularly in things like education. A tailor made syllabus for children could be a potential disaster, with some parents pushing children towards sports, others pushing them towards maths and others pushing them towards personalised religious education in a manner in which has already caused friction between the populace. However, certainly the internet has affected the education system, to the point which the internet is now a requirement for some childrens homework, in a manner in which it was not when I was at school (a decade ago) which puts a greater burden on the parents to provide an internet access, or at the least access to a internet location (such as a library), and furthermore it puts forward more viewpoints than that offered by the national media which allows for a broadening of minds in some cases and a narrowing of minds in others, depending upon the personality of the individual involved. At the same time though you will have a great movement against new technology and a fear of the merge of cultures that it brings, a new rise of xenophobia and luddites both in the real world and online which will be stoked by ever smarter viruses and the widening gulf between online religious communities and the rest of what is mostly quite an agnostic web. However most of the online community will exist in the middle of that, viewing extremes as lunatics and trying to get on with their lives without interference from them. The sort of process, of moving from a standard democratic system to an 'iDemocracy' cannot happen overnight, but is already happening in some stages, online voting for example, and I think it is a process that is going to happen over the coming decades providing that progress maintains its current rate of advance. Greece, on the other hand, is going to find it hard for that kind of solution to occur, because it lacks the kind of infrastructure needed for a fully online community, furthermore we are still in the transitional stage of the online community, it will be another two generations at least before the global community reaches its full potential as more and more people come online, and even then individual governments will seek to limit and control certain elements of it. Is the internet freer today than it was ten years ago? With people being arrested over comments made on Twitter it's hard to say, it certainly isn't anything like a police state, despite what some may have you believe, but it is an example that the kind of total freedom to say what you want, how you want and do what you want, is not on the internet. There is a freedom within moral boundaries, as there is in real life but not complete and utter freedom (unless you're very good at proxies) which is, primarily, because as online activity becomes bigger, it affects the world outside of the computer screen in a bigger manner, people get hurt by things on the internet, be it emotionally...or in some darker ways, physically. Does this make the internet dangerous? No more than it made the writing press dangerous, but look at the problems that surrounded that when it first appeared. TLDR? (I don't blame you) This is something that I think, personally, will happen within the next generation or two, but not within a decade...although I may be surprised, certainly the rate of technological advance and its integration into society (particularly through smart phones) would have boggled my mind fifteen years ago. Who knows what tomorrow might bring?