He's a Muslim He's not a Muslim

[mapuc]

When reading and posting in Yubba's thread about the coming event The Dem. convent.

It made me think. It most be some of them, who are are 110% assure that Obama is a Muslim so the opening will be as it is told in the article

So here's my question

Is it so important if he's a Muslim or not !?

as much I know about the American power, the president can't from one day to an another change America from a democracy into a Sharia state.

He can off course give the Muslim countries some benefits- that all, I presume.

But why this nervous about his believes ??

Markus

But why this nervous about his believes ??

possible answer 1, they are dumb
possible answer 2, Obama the muslim will start a muslim war on all the other muslims who are the wrong sort of muslim.

sensible money is on answer 1

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

possible answer 1, they are dumb
possible answer 2, Obama the muslim will start a muslim war on all the other muslims who are the wrong sort of muslim.

sensible money is on answer 1

I will not say that they are dumb, but have very low knowledge on how Stuff works in USA, when it comes to

President-what he can do and not

Senate-what they can do and not

Congress- Same here

Ok I must be one of them, ´cause my knowledge about the "pyramid of power" is not that high.

Markus

[mookiemookie]

Because fear is used to control people, and making a large swath of the population fear Muslims is a good way to get people to embrace your ideas. Paint boogeymen in every corner and tell people you can protect them from the monsters and you've got it made.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

But why this nervous about his believes ??

Markus

It's not so much the religion itself but rather the lie he's told if the claim is true (I don't believe it BTW). Americans want their presidents to be seen as honest and truthful at all times.

It's why the Republicans were able to make so much political hay over Bill Clinton having sex with Monica Lewinsky. It wasn't the illicit sex itself, it wasn't even the desecration of the oval office, it was Clinton going on TV and wagging his finger in the face of the American people while telling them a bald faced lie. Had he come clean the issue would have quickly faded but his lie gave it legs far beyond it's expiration date.

That's also why the Democrats accused the Bush administration of deliberately lying about Saddams WMD instead of just being taken in by the same bad intel that they are on record as believing before he took office. Few would have cared if Bush was just wrong but when you add an element of deception and suddenly people care a great deal which was the whole point of making the accusation in the first place.

Had the parties been reversed in both situations the accusations would still have been made.

[mapuc]

^ August, that could be some of the answer to it.

But as I have asked some of my friends on Facebook, after they have posted some links about Obama's believes

I asked them this

"So what, what can he do as the president of USA, if he is a muslim-not much, he can't turn USA into a Sharia from the one day to an another"

But if he is a muslim, he should have told the american that.

If you ask me if I believe, if he's a muslim or not

I really don't care- That could be because that I know, that the president of the USA is not that powerfull as many think it is.

He have some powerfull things he can do- He can by own hand attack a country but he can't start a war(declare war on his own)

and many other things

Markus

[Skybird]

There are substantial, basic and most profound total incompatabiloties between Islamic ideology on the one hand, and Western values that are claimed by Western policies and societies on their behalf, and that both are basing on these. That is why it is not just any important but a vital question whether political actors act on the grounds of Islamic values or not.

And since you can act on behalf of Islamic values without formally claiming to be Muslim yourself, may it be for reasons of appeasement and fear, or reasons of misled tolerance and "meaning it well", the question indeed is not whether or not Obama formally cofnesses to beMuslim or not, but the quesiton is does he act in help of deceiving people over Islam, glossing over it, and helping it to spread, or does he help to spread education about Islam, containing its global claim for dominance and superiority.

Since his unbelievable propaganda stunt that now is known as his "Cairo speech", the answer to this vital question is obvious. I do not know ehther hje is a secret Muslim,a nd I do not carew. What he does, and what he aims at and indicates he wants to accomplish - this is what makes me an enemy of him.

WillRomney be b etter? I absolutely doubt it. Business is business. Dependency is dependency. And as a M ormon Romney cannot claim to be free of believing in - in Mormons' case especially hilarious - hallucinations. Only the stories told by Ron Hubbard tops the Mormon genesis. Mormons or scientologists, Obama or Romney - its the choice between plague and cholera. They all four get my middle finger.

I recommend - once again, I linked it several times now - to compare the UN declaration of human rights , and the Islamic human rights declaration. Both are lightyears apart and in several most important issues they are antagonistic and mutually exlcusive. You can have the one only at the price of rejecting the other - YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH.

Regarding Yubba'S thread on the democrats concention, these American conventions are freak shows anyway, Micky Mouse parades and a monumental display or stellar narcism and blown up egos. Seen that way, religious pharisees who take it upon them to give this madness their ver own, very precious, very personal blessing - , perfectly matches the gneral lunacy on display. On the other hand, one must ask what business religious imposters have to do in politics, why they get invited to political conventions, and why religion and politics get mixed when the the founding documents of the US clearly indicate that there shall be a strict separation between religions and pltics. As I see it, religion shall have no seat at the table of politics.

But is it really about politics anyway?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Because fear is used to control people, and making a large swath of the population fear Muslims is a good way to get people to embrace your ideas. Paint boogeymen in every corner and tell people you can protect them from the monsters and you've got it made.

Well, be fair now. Islam has done a good job all of it's own accord to instill fear. September 11th hijacking, beheadings, honor killings, rioting over political cartoons, etc. The US is predominately jedochristian. Evangelicalism has a strong footing in much of the US these days. Evangelicals have zero tolerance to anyone who believes differently then they do. Combine that intolerance with the fear of Islam/Muslims, and to say Obama is Muslim is to say he's the anti-christ. A belief that many biblethumpers feel is true.

In other words, the word Muslim used in context with Obama is much like the hardline rightwingers rhetorical catcall of socalism or socalist used in other contexts.

[yubba]

The first amendent gives him the right to practice any religion he wants, as long as he does not go against the constitution because of his beleifs, but so far there seems to be a problem with seperation of state and the koran. And if he is a koran thumping, prayer rug toatin muslim, he can lie to get his agenda, because the koran says it's ok. The choice is yours who you want to vote for just be careful what you wish for. You need to see the movie 2016.

[mapuc]

If he's a Muslim and have lied to the American people, then they should cast they vote on the candidate and not on the president and after the election, some kind of commission shall investigate if he can be taken to a court
(if it's possible)

But the main question is what can he do as president of USA if he's a Muslim

It's not much

Skybird mentioned free speeches and that's one these rights that's in their amendent and can not be changed by the president him self.

He can refuse to sign some new laws- He can't make his own laws and sign them-Yes he can, but what I know, his law have to be approved by the Senate or Congress

He can't single handed say that, e.g Saudi-Arabia shall have XXX-billion in support and lots of military stuff. That have to be approved by Senate or the Congress.

And that's the main issue- What can he do and not do as the president of USA

If I'm wrong on every statement I have made about Obama, then please enlighten me.

Yes these convents are sometimes like a Circus and that's their way to elect their candidate- Have been searching the INTERNET about this- I wonder if it always have been so.

Markus

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by yubba

The first amendent gives him the right to practice any religion he wants, as long as he does not go against the constitution because of his beleifs, but so far there seems to be a problem with seperation of state and the koran. And if he is a koran thumping, prayer rug toatin muslim, he can lie to get his agenda, because the koran says it's ok. The choice is yours who you want to vote for just be careful what you wish for. You need to see the movie 2016.

I haven't got the time right now, but I going to see this 2016.

I have though been seeking the 2016 movie on youtube to see what it's all about

It looks like one of those conspiracy videos-Nothing wrong with that-Just remember to have your brain engaged and use your common sense, when watching that type of videos

Markus

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

But the main question is what can he do as president of USA if he's a Muslim

It's not much
Markus

Sadly, you are incorrect. While I do NOT believe Obama is a Muslim (if anything he is an athiest), he has proven to be very machiavellian and he does see modern Judea-Xtianity as a threat to the power of his party and of government, as well as a threat to his (stated) goals to make the US "just another country".

Thus, he has islamic sympathies simply because the more success islam has in the world, the weaker the US and Judeao-Xtianity appears to be. He isn't muslim - but radical islam presents itself as a tool which he has used. Take the overthrow of Mubarek and the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. This stripped the US of a reliable ally in the region, weakening the US globally. Libyan power is more and more being controlled by Islamic hardliners like Abdel Hakim Belhaj. When radical islamists were poised to take control, the US decided to "help" them - and the governments (however horrible they were) toppled. Yet when a radical islamic government was threatened - the US stood idly by while they slaughtered their own people - in Iran.

The President has direct control over the majority of international relations. He decides where, how and when the US becomes involved in any situation - whether a crisis or a natural disaster, whether a good or bad situation. The State Department falls directly under the Executive.

Thus - the person (or people) in the office of the President can - and in the last decade and a half - have done significant harm to the long term prospects of the country in the global arena.

The question of Obama's "religiousity" (or lack thereof) can - as the last few years have shown - have a significant impact on how they handle global issues.

Then you have the internal issues....
The President sets the scene for internal change. Look at Obamacar, his push for green energy, or Tarp (which his predecessor is just as guilty of). There are so many ways the President can - either through ineptitude or intent - screw the nation.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Sadly, you are incorrect. While I do NOT believe Obama is a Muslim (if anything he is an athiest), he has proven to be very machiavellian and he does see modern Judea-Xtianity as a threat to the power of his party and of government, as well as a threat to his (stated) goals to make the US "just another country".

Stated? Really? Strange that you think he's an atheist, given the almost (to me) nauseating level of God-grovelling US politics seems to require these days, and of which we have plenty of proof in Obama's case.

Thus, he has islamic sympathies simply because the more success islam has in the world, the weaker the US and Judeao-Xtianity appears to be. He isn't muslim - but radical islam presents itself as a tool which he has used. Take the overthrow of Mubarek and the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. This stripped the US of a reliable ally in the region, weakening the US globally.

So Obama has used the Muslim Brotherhood to overthrow Mubarak in order to further reduce US and "judeo-Xtian" (whatever that is) power? I'm reminded of that old canard about extraordinary claims.

Libyan power is more and more being controlled by Islamic hardliners like Abdel Hakim Belhaj. When radical islamists were poised to take control, the US decided to "help" them - and the governments (however horrible they were) toppled. Yet when a radical islamic government was threatened - the US stood idly by while they slaughtered their own people - in Iran.

I think there's a definite difference to be drawn between the Libyan situation and the one in Iran. The Iranian government was never severely threatened by the Green movement.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

If he's a Muslim and have lied to the American people, then they should cast they vote on the candidate and not on the president and after the election, some kind of commission shall investigate if he can be taken to a court
(if it's possible)

But the main question is what can he do as president of USA if he's a Muslim

It's not much

Skybird mentioned free speeches and that's one these rights that's in their amendent and can not be changed by the president him self.

He can refuse to sign some new laws- He can't make his own laws and sign them-Yes he can, but what I know, his law have to be approved by the Senate or Congress

He can't single handed say that, e.g Saudi-Arabia shall have XXX-billion in support and lots of military stuff. That have to be approved by Senate or the Congress.

And that's the main issue- What can he do and not do as the president of USA

If I'm wrong on every statement I have made about Obama, then please enlighten me.

No, you're right and you bring up a good point too. Whoever takes over from Obama ought to pursue investigations against both him, his attorney general and any other members of his administration who they think have lied or broken the law. I hope they won't wimp out like the Bush administration did with the Clintons in the foolish idea of mending fences.

Yes these convents are sometimes like a Circus and that's their way to elect their candidate- Have been searching the INTERNET about this- I wonder if it always have been so.

Markus

Yes it has but the internet gives them much wider reaching voice than these types ever had in the past.

[mapuc]

^I stand corrected, if I was wrong on some of my statements

So he can make a real mess of USA if he wants to

Obamacare is one of his own "child" so to say, but didn't it need some kind of approval from the Senate?

I know that he can without approval give an order to send some cruisemissile(Tomahawk) against some terroristcamp or facility in a country

But what I have learned about this, is that he can't declare war on his own
(If he order an attack on Russia, then it would be the same as he have declared war)A long story I once heard many years ago on a swedish news program)

Markus