Want to get into the Paradox games

Safe-Keeper · 08-27-12, 04:50 PM

Since there are so many strategy gamers here -- I'm getting Victoria II and A House Divided first of all, but what other games can you guys recommend? I'm considering Europa Universalis III and Hearts of Iron III, are they any good?

I'm perfectly willing (and planning) to download mods for any of these games if that makes a difference.

seaniam81 · 08-27-12, 04:52 PM

HoI3 is always a good choice. You should really look into Crusader Kings 2. By far the best of Paradox.

Oberon · 08-27-12, 08:06 PM

Crusader Kings II definitely. I, personally, struggled to get into HOI3 but there's little doubting its pedigree.

08-27-12, 11:15 PM

It really depends on your playstyle, everybody has a Paradox game that "Clicks" with them while others they may not get on with, probably one of the better features of Paradox games, they all compliment each other and each has a different time period and playstyle to go with it.

CK2 is nice if you want to play a character more then a country and interested in Feudal Politics and dealing with family members and both internal and external politics.

Eu3 puts you in control of a country as the world starts to move away from Feudalism, the formation of Empires, colonization, centralization, etc. Not really my favorite as its quite hard to start from nothing, unlike Ck2.

Victoria 2 is about industrialization, economics, politics, new ideologies and new types of warfare, (Including trench warfare) Building factories and what not.

Hearts of Iron 3 is armed forces management, little politics, little economy, just very detailed management of armed forces on a grand scale, Where to send your tanks, what units to build, what brigades to form your divisions out of. Its kinda overwhelming for me since not only do you have to manage an entire army of units but you have to manage their headquarters, and try to keep units in a certain group together and it just gets annoying. (Although the situations that can develop can be entertaining as hell, like the biggest front in the war being a vicious back and forth over India which is eventually stopped by Germany invading America.

)

Narko · 08-28-12, 01:00 AM

Darkest Hour: A Hearts of Iron Game
Less micromanagement, better optimization than HoI 3 (less demanding on system).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkest...s_of_Iron_Game

CCIP · 08-28-12, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narko

Darkest Hour: A Hearts of Iron Game
Less micromanagement, better optimization than HoI 3 (less demanding on system).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkest...s_of_Iron_Game

That's a very good suggestion actually, especially given its price! It's sort of like "what HoI 2 should've been from the start". I think it is an excellent entry point into Paradox games.

HunterICX · 08-28-12, 04:53 AM

I really should get Darkest Hour one of these days

---

But as far as Paradox goes you can't go wrong with titles like Victoria 2 (including the expansion A House Divided which adds a lot of features to the main game and balances things out)

CKII is just well I can just echo what's been said about it already here and in the CKII thread we have around that the game is just too much fun have it pass by. Great about it you can start as a greedy king who wants MOAR!! or as a meaningless Count on his way to greatness or when you think you have a chance to get the crown just to fail miserably and tossed into the dungeon by that brat of a king that you've hated from the day he was born.

HunterICX

Hottentot · 08-28-12, 05:17 AM

CK 2 is not exactly a great strategy game though, traditionally speaking. If your main goal in the game is to conquer as much territory as possible, then there are better titles for that with deeper strategic possibilities, resources and so on. Despite of the recent additions to the combat system, the war side of the game still leaves a lot to be desired for. The most common and fool proof strategy still is the good old "get a huge mob, beat the enemy's huge mob with it and then go win the war."

Also, as far as strategy goes, Crusader Kings is highly random. There are frequently whole threads on the official forums about "the game screwing the player over" because someone's carefully planned strategy was ruined by a simple random event. And contrary to what people claim, the AI is actually pretty smart. If it sees it's going to lose its kingdom to you through bad inheritance, you can be sure it does everything it can to prevent it. And often succeeds too, if you are not careful enough.

I'd say the game is wonderful, but its charm comes from something completely different than what it looks like on the first glance. I take it more as an RPG and a political game than an old fashioned grand strategy. Whenever I start playing it like a latter, it becomes stupidly dull.

Safe-Keeper · 08-28-12, 10:34 AM

Thanks for all the feedback, I'm 99% new to the Paradox games and this helped me tremendously

.

I'm still most likely getting V2 first, and then probably HOI3 or Darkest Hour. Downloaded the HOI3 demo and was amazed at how easy it was to get into compared to V2 (where I was truly 100% lost in the beginning before I played through the tutorials :P ). I don't know how I'll do managing huge armies, but I suppose I could always play one of the smaller countries (Norway of course being high on the list

).

soopaman2 · 08-28-12, 11:17 AM

Paradox games are awesome.

For a somewhat easy one, get Europa Universalis 3. If you want it harder, and I mean way harder, then download the Magna Mudi mod, made by a not so nice fella named Ubik. Nice guy, but he is mean to you with his game! (framed event)

Crusader Kings 2 if you want a step up. I did some greasy, wormy stuff to become Holy Roman emporer, As well as King of France, England, and Poland. (with an active claim on the Kingdom of Sicily) Its really epic. Dealing with your dukes, and counts becomes an issue, as many of them resent everything you do. Killing them is easy but makes everyone else hate you. So it forces diplomacy, and intrigue. It is about maintaining a dyansty, not so much a character or country.

HOI3 if your ready for the big boys. The game is lulzy when you manage to turn most of south America into Nazis, who promptly keep America occupied while you ravage Russia, and the British Isles. You can twist fate a bit. Oh and a bit of advice, go around the Maginot line.

(I actually invaded through the French Riviera and Italy, as I was bringing a decent sized force of panzers, engineers and seasoned AT infantry back from the Suez, because Mussolini is an idiot)

Safe-Keeper · 08-28-12, 06:59 PM

I fear I might be a bit too lazy for HOI3, I start a game determined to do a good job micro-managing everything, but then I open up Scapa Flow and go "gooood, that's a lot of ships" and my commitment just seems to evaporate

. Still definitely getting it, though, although when playing the demo I still feel as "lost" as I did when I was just getting into Civilization 4 and didn't understand the game's mechanics at all. So I'm still playing the game by instinct and role-playing, making decisions based on what feels right and what the different nations did in reality (although I also try to learn from their mistakes

).

I think I'll download a historical accuracy mod if I am to play HOI3, though, I love the WWII setting, but not how ahistorical it can get. I don't need everything to happen as it did in reality, but I want to avoid scenarios like Germany invading America, or Britain allying with the Axis

. In other words, I want everything to follow the same pattern as it did in real life, but I also want to be able to change history.

Not sure if I'll get CK2 after reading your posts, though, not sure if micromanaging character intrigues is really my thing. Still think it's a great idea, though, and it ties into why I'm rapidly growing to love the Paradox games -- they explore all kinds of aspects of politics and warfare that many other strategy games omit.

Stealhead · 08-28-12, 08:00 PM

I like Victoria 2 a lot I have not tried "A House Divided" yet though.I cant say anything on CK2 either as I do not have it.

I do like Europa Universalis 3 though it is pretty good but much easier to manage than HOI3 make sure that you get the Buy Europa Universalis III Chronicles version that has everything the "complete" edition actually is not.

I have HOI3 as well and personally I do not really like it not to say that the game is bad I just do not like it that much HOI3 is like that you either like it or you don't.

If you want something with war strategy that is also historic but where it is possible to change the outcome I would recommend "The Operational Art of War III" it is not a Paradox game though but it is good.The game covers the 20th/21st century and people have made battles from the 19th and even ancient times.

http://matrixgames.com/products/317/...Art.of.War.III

seaniam81 · 08-28-12, 09:11 PM

Lets not forget Arsenal of Democracy. I enjoyed that one very much. I would rate it above (but not by much) Darkest Hour.

08-28-12, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Since there are so many strategy gamers here -- I'm getting Victoria II and A House Divided first of all, but what other games can you guys recommend? I'm considering Europa Universalis III and Hearts of Iron III, are they any good?

I'm perfectly willing (and planning) to download mods for any of these games if that makes a difference.

Well, I just recently bought Vic2 and House divided, HOI3 complete, Supreme Ruler 2020 gold and Supreme Ruler Cold War. So far I have really enjoyed them all a great deal. I found a WW I mod for Vic2 AHD and after learning alittle modding of my own, have really enjoyed the mod. Unfortunatly it is a WIP mod and you start off with sailing ships in your fleets at the beginning of 1914. I figured out how to change the oob files, and put dreadnoughts and armoured cruisers into the starting fleets, so now its much better, but they do seem to have the land warfare working pretty good in it already. I like to use the sprites in the game rather than the counters, so would also recommend getting the sprite packs DLC as well. I also have learned how to do some modding to the Surpreme Ruler games as well as HOI3, and really enjoy them as well. I would highly recommend them to anyone, and don't know how I missed out on them for so long.

Regards:
Captain Rockwell Torry

Penguin · 08-29-12, 04:35 PM

The good thing is once you get the grip on the game mechanics behind one Paradox game, it doen't take too much effort to get into another one. This doesn't mean they play all the same. Though the concept of a historical sandbox is something they all have in common. And this is the nice thing: The starting point is historical, then the game develops its own alternative timeline.

A good and often very immersive start is to check out some of the AARs in the Paradox forums, or the ones you can find on here. Victoria 2's strategy guide, which you can download after you registered your game is also a good thing to get into it.

I am a huge fan of Victoria 2, I play it since it came out. To me it feels very lively due to the POP concept. Your population is not only a number, they change jobs, migrate, vote and sometimes those unthankful plebs even revolt.

Besides that, this is also an historic era which interests me very much. A great way to satisfy your inner imperialist - though EU3 is also very good for this.
And it really helps to set your own goals when you play a country, not just hunt for points. Conquer North America as communistic CSA, become a world power as Venice, be an industrial superpower as Haiti, invade England as New England, etc, etc..
AHD addewd very much, the 1861 scenario is not too good, if you don't want to play the US civil war, as you usually have a better standing if you manage a country by yourself from 36-61, but it added so many improvements to the vanilla game. (@ Stealhead: buy it!!! - you won't regret it, though check out the regular deals on Gamersgate)
The only thing I am missing in this game is some espionage concept.

btw, Safe-Keeper, as it's not covered in the tutorial nor guides: if you want to play as Norway in Vic 2, you have to start as Sweden then release it in the decisions tab in politics and klick on "play as..." - it works this way for any releasable country.

08-27-12, 04:50 PM	#1
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Want to get into the Paradox games Since there are so many strategy gamers here -- I'm getting Victoria II and A House Divided first of all, but what other games can you guys recommend? I'm considering Europa Universalis III and Hearts of Iron III, are they any good? I'm perfectly willing (and planning) to download mods for any of these games if that makes a difference. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

08-27-12, 04:52 PM	#2
seaniam81 Commodore Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 624 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 0	HoI3 is always a good choice. You should really look into Crusader Kings 2. By far the best of Paradox. __________________ Ultima ratio regum. (The final argument of kings) - Inscription on french cannons, on order of Louis XIV

08-28-12, 04:53 AM	#7
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I really should get Darkest Hour one of these days --- But as far as Paradox goes you can't go wrong with titles like Victoria 2 (including the expansion A House Divided which adds a lot of features to the main game and balances things out) CKII is just well I can just echo what's been said about it already here and in the CKII thread we have around that the game is just too much fun have it pass by. Great about it you can start as a greedy king who wants MOAR!! or as a meaningless Count on his way to greatness or when you think you have a chance to get the crown just to fail miserably and tossed into the dungeon by that brat of a king that you've hated from the day he was born. HunterICX __________________

08-28-12, 05:17 AM	#8
Hottentot Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: My private socialist utopia of Finland Posts: 1,918 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	CK 2 is not exactly a great strategy game though, traditionally speaking. If your main goal in the game is to conquer as much territory as possible, then there are better titles for that with deeper strategic possibilities, resources and so on. Despite of the recent additions to the combat system, the war side of the game still leaves a lot to be desired for. The most common and fool proof strategy still is the good old "get a huge mob, beat the enemy's huge mob with it and then go win the war." Also, as far as strategy goes, Crusader Kings is highly random. There are frequently whole threads on the official forums about "the game screwing the player over" because someone's carefully planned strategy was ruined by a simple random event. And contrary to what people claim, the AI is actually pretty smart. If it sees it's going to lose its kingdom to you through bad inheritance, you can be sure it does everything it can to prevent it. And often succeeds too, if you are not careful enough. I'd say the game is wonderful, but its charm comes from something completely different than what it looks like on the first glance. I take it more as an RPG and a political game than an old fashioned grand strategy. Whenever I start playing it like a latter, it becomes stupidly dull. __________________ Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда. Last edited by Hottentot; 08-28-12 at 05:25 AM. Reason: Added the link

08-28-12, 10:34 AM	#9
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the feedback, I'm 99% new to the Paradox games and this helped me tremendously . I'm still most likely getting V2 first, and then probably HOI3 or Darkest Hour. Downloaded the HOI3 demo and was amazed at how easy it was to get into compared to V2 (where I was truly 100% lost in the beginning before I played through the tutorials :P ). I don't know how I'll do managing huge armies, but I suppose I could always play one of the smaller countries (Norway of course being high on the list ). __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

08-27-12, 08:06 PM	#3
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Crusader Kings II definitely. I, personally, struggled to get into HOI3 but there's little doubting its pedigree.

08-27-12, 11:15 PM	#4
Rilder Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	It really depends on your playstyle, everybody has a Paradox game that "Clicks" with them while others they may not get on with, probably one of the better features of Paradox games, they all compliment each other and each has a different time period and playstyle to go with it. CK2 is nice if you want to play a character more then a country and interested in Feudal Politics and dealing with family members and both internal and external politics. Eu3 puts you in control of a country as the world starts to move away from Feudalism, the formation of Empires, colonization, centralization, etc. Not really my favorite as its quite hard to start from nothing, unlike Ck2. Victoria 2 is about industrialization, economics, politics, new ideologies and new types of warfare, (Including trench warfare) Building factories and what not. Hearts of Iron 3 is armed forces management, little politics, little economy, just very detailed management of armed forces on a grand scale, Where to send your tanks, what units to build, what brigades to form your divisions out of. Its kinda overwhelming for me since not only do you have to manage an entire army of units but you have to manage their headquarters, and try to keep units in a certain group together and it just gets annoying. (Although the situations that can develop can be entertaining as hell, like the biggest front in the war being a vicious back and forth over India which is eventually stopped by Germany invading America. )

08-28-12, 01:00 AM	#5
Narko Watch Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Latvia, Riga Posts: 19 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	Darkest Hour: A Hearts of Iron Game Less micromanagement, better optimization than HoI 3 (less demanding on system). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkest...s_of_Iron_Game

08-28-12, 11:17 AM	#10
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Paradox games are awesome. For a somewhat easy one, get Europa Universalis 3. If you want it harder, and I mean way harder, then download the Magna Mudi mod, made by a not so nice fella named Ubik. Nice guy, but he is mean to you with his game! (framed event) Crusader Kings 2 if you want a step up. I did some greasy, wormy stuff to become Holy Roman emporer, As well as King of France, England, and Poland. (with an active claim on the Kingdom of Sicily) Its really epic. Dealing with your dukes, and counts becomes an issue, as many of them resent everything you do. Killing them is easy but makes everyone else hate you. So it forces diplomacy, and intrigue. It is about maintaining a dyansty, not so much a character or country. HOI3 if your ready for the big boys. The game is lulzy when you manage to turn most of south America into Nazis, who promptly keep America occupied while you ravage Russia, and the British Isles. You can twist fate a bit. Oh and a bit of advice, go around the Maginot line. (I actually invaded through the French Riviera and Italy, as I was bringing a decent sized force of panzers, engineers and seasoned AT infantry back from the Suez, because Mussolini is an idiot) __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world. Last edited by soopaman2; 08-28-12 at 11:28 AM.

08-28-12, 06:59 PM	#11
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	I fear I might be a bit too lazy for HOI3, I start a game determined to do a good job micro-managing everything, but then I open up Scapa Flow and go "gooood, that's a lot of ships" and my commitment just seems to evaporate. Still definitely getting it, though, although when playing the demo I still feel as "lost" as I did when I was just getting into Civilization 4 and didn't understand the game's mechanics at all. So I'm still playing the game by instinct and role-playing, making decisions based on what feels right and what the different nations did in reality (although I also try to learn from their mistakes). I think I'll download a historical accuracy mod if I am to play HOI3, though, I love the WWII setting, but not how ahistorical it can get. I don't need everything to happen as it did in reality, but I want to avoid scenarios like Germany invading America, or Britain allying with the Axis. In other words, I want everything to follow the same pattern as it did in real life, but I also want to be able to change history. Not sure if I'll get CK2 after reading your posts, though, not sure if micromanaging character intrigues is really my thing. Still think it's a great idea, though, and it ties into why I'm rapidly growing to love the Paradox games -- they explore all kinds of aspects of politics and warfare that many other strategy games omit. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper. Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 08-28-12 at 07:18 PM.

08-28-12, 08:00 PM	#12
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I like Victoria 2 a lot I have not tried "A House Divided" yet though.I cant say anything on CK2 either as I do not have it. I do like Europa Universalis 3 though it is pretty good but much easier to manage than HOI3 make sure that you get the Buy Europa Universalis III Chronicles version that has everything the "complete" edition actually is not. I have HOI3 as well and personally I do not really like it not to say that the game is bad I just do not like it that much HOI3 is like that you either like it or you don't. If you want something with war strategy that is also historic but where it is possible to change the outcome I would recommend "The Operational Art of War III" it is not a Paradox game though but it is good.The game covers the 20th/21st century and people have made battles from the 19th and even ancient times. http://matrixgames.com/products/317/...Art.of.War.III

08-28-12, 09:11 PM	#13
seaniam81 Commodore Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 624 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 0	Lets not forget Arsenal of Democracy. I enjoyed that one very much. I would rate it above (but not by much) Darkest Hour. __________________ Ultima ratio regum. (The final argument of kings) - Inscription on french cannons, on order of Louis XIV

08-29-12, 04:35 PM	#15
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	The good thing is once you get the grip on the game mechanics behind one Paradox game, it doen't take too much effort to get into another one. This doesn't mean they play all the same. Though the concept of a historical sandbox is something they all have in common. And this is the nice thing: The starting point is historical, then the game develops its own alternative timeline. A good and often very immersive start is to check out some of the AARs in the Paradox forums, or the ones you can find on here. Victoria 2's strategy guide, which you can download after you registered your game is also a good thing to get into it. I am a huge fan of Victoria 2, I play it since it came out. To me it feels very lively due to the POP concept. Your population is not only a number, they change jobs, migrate, vote and sometimes those unthankful plebs even revolt. Besides that, this is also an historic era which interests me very much. A great way to satisfy your inner imperialist - though EU3 is also very good for this. And it really helps to set your own goals when you play a country, not just hunt for points. Conquer North America as communistic CSA, become a world power as Venice, be an industrial superpower as Haiti, invade England as New England, etc, etc.. AHD addewd very much, the 1861 scenario is not too good, if you don't want to play the US civil war, as you usually have a better standing if you manage a country by yourself from 36-61, but it added so many improvements to the vanilla game. (@ Stealhead: buy it!!! - you won't regret it, though check out the regular deals on Gamersgate) The only thing I am missing in this game is some espionage concept. btw, Safe-Keeper, as it's not covered in the tutorial nor guides: if you want to play as Norway in Vic 2, you have to start as Sweden then release it in the decisions tab in politics and klick on "play as..." - it works this way for any releasable country.