Norway parts with Christian church

[Safe-Keeper]

We're now officially a secular kingdom!

Norway abolishes state-sponsored Church of Norway

About time with the Christians comprising only one out of five million people, 72% of the populace "not believing in a personal god", and only something like 2-5% attending services.

Originally Posted by the article above

Traditionally, every citizen of Norway became a member of the Church of Norway upon baptism. 79 percent of Norwegians are registered members [because they automatically became members of the church upon birth -safe], but only about 20 percent make religion a large part of their lives and only two percent attend church regularly, according to 2009 and 2010 data. A 2002 study done by Gustafsson and Pettersson revealed that 72 percent of Norwegians "do not believe in a personal God."

Go us!
The motion was passed with surprisingly little public response, possibly because we had Constitution Day to celebrate and Breivik's trial taking up much of the news space and public attention. Either way, save from a tiny (and mostly ignored) demonstration outside a courthouse and some ruckuss from people who want to throw out our flag and replace it with a "secular" version with no cross (may they burn), this has mostly passed in silence.

[Skybird]

Congratulations from the bottom of my heart! Hope your politicians do not throw you into the jaw of Islam now. Saying that due to the bad example set by Sweden.

On paper and by constitution secular, Germany nevertheless gives hundreds of millions, if not billions in state sponsoring to Protestant and Catholic church, plus plenty of legal special status and tax evasion permissions. Hope you can avoid that tripwire.

[Herr-Berbunch]

If only other countries would follow suit. I work for a large Norwegian company, makes the thought of moving over there (not that I have to, or will) all the more enticing.

[Garion]

Odin be Praised....

I'll get my coat

Cheers

Garion

[Penguin]

Bravo, Norway!
So does it also mean that the church is also fiscally treated like any other entity? (= no extra subsidies, no special tax breaks)

Originally Posted by Skybird

Hope your politicians do not throw you into the jaw of Islam now. Saying that due to the bad example set by Sweden.

Can you elaborate how Sweden is less secular than Germany or somehow encourages Islam? I amn not talking religious appeasment statements from politicians, but official policy.
The special protection of religion vs free speech is unfortunately EU law...
However Sweden's education law from 2010 states that all schools are required to teach students in an objective manner, free of confession. This also goes for confessional schools - where btw the same crap as in Germany regarding state sponsoring goes on. However the curriculum has to be fairy-tale free.

[Skybird]

Policy is what is executed in policies. Lip confessions and ink on paper I do not care for anymore.

On Sweden, the most obvious problem is Malmö. But it is not the only one.



That was 2009. It is already worse today. Beside the many news snippets I picked up over the years, and what I read in books years ago, I know that from firsthand witness reports - Jewish distant friends of mine who fled from Malmö in 2010.

Then my old favourite, Pat Condell:



I must not point out the many other videos on the Islamisation of Sweden and the cataclysmic effects it causes for Swedish culture and society, it all is there in links that you will or will not click all by yourself.

[Betonov]

Lets hope it spreads down south

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

One columnist here in Finland praised Norway for its decision. In her opinion its likely that Finland will follow them soon...




...right after Iran.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Policy is what is executed in policies. Lip confessions and ink on paper I do not care for anymore.

On Sweden, the most obvious problem is Malmö. But it is not the only one.



That was 2009. It is already worse today. Beside the many news snippets I picked up over the years, and what I read in books years ago, I know that from firsthand witness reports - Jewish distant friends of mine who fled from Malmö in 2010.

Then my old favourite, Pat Condell:



I must not point out the many other videos on the Islamisation of Sweden and the cataclysmic effects it causes for Swedish culture and society, it all is there in links that you will or will not click all by yourself.

Grr, you know how to get an ole left bastard like me. When I see the pics from the 2009 demonstration and especially the so-called lefty, anti-imperialist morons participating in it, it still makes my blood boil.

I am familiar with the sit in Malmö, I don't like the news coming from there and I also see the Jews as canaries of civilization - the first folks who sense when poison spreads through the air.
But we can take the same look at Germany: Compare Malmö-Rosengård with Berlin-Neukölln, or Duisburg-Marxloh - where still the Swedish policy looks better (immigrant support, social-work; anti-crime not so much, I give you that)
We can also discuss the Vilks cartoon "controversy". Compare how many German and how many Swedish newspapers had printed them - or had at least the guts to stand up and give a pro-free speech statement. Even with the Danish cartoons we had afaik only 3 German papers printing them, I can't think of any which printed the Swedish ones.
We can take a look at the demonstration in Bochum, where the German police actively supported crazy arseholes and stormed a private home to take down an Israel flag because they were bitching about it. Or the fundamentalistic demo in D-town, where the left counter-demonstrators were shut down by the cops.

I see your point, you talk about approval by mimicking the infamous 3 monkeys - there is certainly some truth in it. Im am definitely not trying to whitewash the sit in Sweden.

However I am talking about how religion is actively supported by the state. And there Germany looks much, much worse than Sweden in comparison; in terms of tax-breaks/subsidies, blasphemy laws and general separation of religion and state.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Penguin

However I am talking about how religion is actively supported by the state. And there Germany looks much, much worse than Sweden in comparison; in terms of tax-breaks/subsidies, blasphemy laws and general separation of religion and state.

Islam is actively supported by the Swedish state. Just by that video alone: They raise massive funds to support Muslim subcommunities growing, the socialists keep importing Muslim voters into Sweden, they allow police act on double standards - favouring Muslim protesters who are violent and discrmininating Christian and Jewish peaceful protesters - they allow Islam destroying Sweden's cultural and national identity. And do not get me started about the Swedish traditional anti-semite stand when it comes to international issues, or Israel. Sweden appeases Islam on all fronts and submits tol it more and more, on all fronts it seems, it accepts that Jews are fleeing the country and that Christians and Jews get discrminated and threatened.

The family I know from Malmo, btw is no real close friends of mine, but "lose Bekannte", I just do not know the English term for that. I came into contact with them via former comrades in a Bürgerinitiative where I once was enaged that prevented a mosque being increased in our part fo the town, and made sure a treaty on land being sold to them on false claims and forged identities pretended by the hiding muslim buyers, was nullified.

I also remind of the Salafist movement in Germany, that is openly challenging the constitution, turnd violent now, and issues public calls for assassination of its critics in Germany. The Salafists are not any extremist form of Islam, but pretty much mainstream Islam, basing on what Quran, Shariah and Sunna represent to be "Islam". In Berlin I know from former collehgauzes (soxcial workers), that the repoprts of Berlin police not entering certain parts of the city anymore as long as they do not go in in hundreds, are true, and that Muslim criminal family clans as well Muslim communities whose members are under suspicion, are iognored, bypassed, or treated with with glacé gloves. In other words: the state'S sovereignity and it'S monopole for power and enforcing the law, in parts already have capitulated. We are no longer in full control of our home, and we lose more share of that control with every month passing by.

I recommend Henryk Broder'S "Hurra, wir kapitulieren! Von der Lust am Einknicken" . He opens with a quote by Churchill, "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last", and one page later the first chapter has the title (Broder's family witnessed the holocaust, he is - formally - Jewish): "Und dafür haben wir überlebt?" (Is this what we have survived for?).

If you want a more substantial, but difficult, academic text on what Islam really is, with plenty of footnotes and a long appendix with literature, I recommend the basic triology by Raddatz (he wrote more books, but these three form kind of a basic triology) "Von Gott zu Allah. Christentum und Islam in der liberalen Fortschrittsgesellschaft", "Von Allah zum Terror. Der Djihad und die Deformierung des Westens", and "Allahs Schleier. Die Frau im Kampf der Kulturen". These are very profound, well-educated books, some of the best I have ever read about Islam in German or English. He and his academic mentor Annemarie Schimmel broke apart when Schimmel somewhat shied away from beign consequent in pointing out the evils in Islam, while Raddatz did not and insisted on calling them by their names. Needless to say that he is politically incorrect and a hot-burning hate-figure for multiculturalists, lefties and islamophile useful idiots (Lenin). He had to leave Germany and live in hiding for some time, some years ago, since the police said it would not guarantee his safety anymore, and of course he is an intimate enemy of the biggest Islam-fool we have in germany, Udo Steinbach.

To be an enemy of Udo Steinbach in my opinion is a real decoration. The damage this pseudo-academic propagandist has been doing in the German debate about Islam, and more: about the Palestinian issue, is hard to be overestimated.

But the raddatz books are no lecture that will turn you optimistically over the future. Raddatz shows what a powerful monster Islam nis. That power - deriving from the totalitarian ideology - combined with advantages in demographic trends and the general decline in intellectual and cultural capacity of the West, make me extremely pessimistic when assessing our chances of that Europe can escape this at least third rush of Islam for dominance and power in Europe. I fear that this time we will fall. Due to demography, if Heinsohn is right with his youthbulge theory (I think he is), we need to hold out fpor anpother 50-70 years from the present on, before Muslim msocieites will have turned so old that they have lost their current expansive elan for another couple of centuries. But the damage done by Muslim mirgation into Europe, and their offsprings, still will be there, then, so maybe Islam in Europe in 60 years does not even need any foreign support from Muslim countries anymore to grow and spread and take it all over.

I will not live to see that. Nor any chilkdren of mine, thankfully. Which I see both as a mercy. I am too used to freedom and humanistic ideas as if I want to adapt to some primitive barbarian bull**** from the medieval desert again. People of my mind would be the first to lose their head under Islamic rule anyway.