French WWII resistance hero Raymond Aubrac dies aged 97

Gerald · 04-11-12, 05:53 AM

Quote:

One of the leading figures of the French resistance against the Nazis, Raymond Aubrac, has died aged 97, his family says.

Quote:

His daughter said he had died at Val de Grace military hospital in Paris on Tuesday evening.

Raymond Aubrac and his late wife Lucie became important members of Jean Moulin's underground Resistance movement in 1942.

Aubrac was arrested in June 1943 with Moulin, who died after torture.

In a recent BBC interview, he described how their arrests by the Gestapo at a doctor's surgery in the suburb of Caluire in Lyon had come as "a shock but not a surprise".

Jean Moulin, who had been sent by Gen Charles de Gaulle to organise the underground resistance to Nazi occupation, was tortured, taken to Paris and later died on a train to Berlin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17674554

Note: 11 April 2012 Last updated at 09:41 GMT

BossMark · 04-11-12, 06:02 AM

R.I.P Raymond at least you didn't give in and surrender

kraznyi_oktjabr · 04-11-12, 06:15 AM

RIP ~SALUTE~

Gerald · 04-11-12, 06:36 AM

RIP SIR!

Jimbuna · 04-11-12, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossMark

R.I.P Raymond at least you didn't give in and surrender

Aye, some very brave people never gave in, even whilst under occupation.

~SALUTE~

_dgn_ · 04-11-12, 04:21 PM

Some elements were oddly omitted : so some details are needed to refine the profile of the "hero".

About Résistance, as communist, Aubrac began to resist only from mid 1941.

Why only from mid 1941 ? Since Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (end August 1939), Germany and Soviet Russia were allies, so French communists (belonging to the Komintern) were not very concerned by the defense of France during the hostilities (between September 1939 - June 1940). September 1939 was also the end of the Spanish War, where communists were more active.

For the first time in the history of France, a party (the Communist Party) was prohibited (in September 1939, by the Daladier government) : its elected officials (deputies, senators, mayors ...) were sent to jail, considered as traitors or agents of the enemy. So many communists disappeared in clandestinity. Some French communists deserted (as the chief of the party, Maurice Thorez, who flew in Russia), other made sabotages in military factories (and were shot on order of the Daladier government).

When the German army won the Battle of France and occupied the country, a part of the communist leadars left the clandestinity, asking advantages to this enemy army (in particular the republication of their official newspaper, L'Humanité, or the release of their elected officials).

But the real Résistance against Germans started in September 1939, followed by the fights in May and June 1940 (90 000 KIA for this period of 7 weeks. By comparison, during the hardest hours, there were 100 000 KIA each month at Verdun in 1916), followed after the defeat by dissimulation of weapons, military vehicles, helping British Intelligence services ... Communists were not very present here !

On 22 June 1941, Germany attacked Soviets. The situation became clearer for the communists in Europe : they were to help to defend the motherland (Soviet Russia). For Aubrac, it was time for him to enter the Résistance againt Nazism. With well orchestrated propaganda, fight for the motherland became gradually the fight for the fatherland (France) ...

At the Libération, French Communist Party succeeded in making forget its quite particular role at the beginning of WWII, becoming on the contrary the champion of the combat against the Nazism. During generations, this (falsificated) French history was taught at the school, in the universities, were communists were numerous among the teachers.

After WWII, friend of the good Hô-Chi-Minh, Aubrac continued to be useful to the Soviets during the Cold War, acting against France and NATO interests.

Celebrated today in the media (were communism still has many sympathizers), Aubrac is a good example of these alleged symbols of French Resistance.

It's also a good example of how the misinformation remains effective ...

MH · 04-11-12, 04:48 PM

Good post _dgn_
I had no idea that french actually know that.

Viva la France.

CCIP · 04-11-12, 05:00 PM

I didn't know being a communist and being a resistance hero is mutually exclusive. Sorry, but communists had every bit as much of a role, if not more of a role, than anyone else in defeating Hitler. You may disagree with their politics, but I don't think their politics negates the role which they had in the war. By that logic, there isn't a single Russian hero in WWII and they were all just evil commies bent on taking over the world, no matter what they did.

MH · 04-11-12, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

I didn't know being a communist and being a resistance hero is mutually exclusive. Sorry, but communists had every bit as much of a role, if not more of a role, than anyone else in defeating Hitler. You may disagree with their politics, but I don't think their politics negates the role which they had in the war. By that logic, there isn't a single Russian hero in WWII and they were all just evil commies bent on taking over the world, no matter what they did.

People on the top certainly had been the evil bastards that wanted to take over the world...and they miscalculated then it all turned in to great patriotic war with great heroes of soviet union.
In many senses Russian ruling clique had been worse than nazi's.
Still the heroism and sacrifice of Russians is undeniable just as the crude polices.

Dan D · 04-11-12, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

Good post _dgn_
I had no idea that french actually know that.

Viva la France.

Is that the essence of word war II?

The true enemy is the Communists in the end?

What next? The Waffen SS soldiers were spearheads to "liberate Europe from Communism"? That was the Nazi doctrine.

"Nevermind, it was a good fight" and handshake, I don't think so.

MH · 04-11-12, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan D

What next? The Waffen SS soldiers were spearheads to "liberate Europe from Communism"? That was the Nazi doctrine.

Did i say that?
Nazi me...my grandfather was sort of communist and spend time in Russian gulag after partition of Poland due to being a Jew.
Which in turn saved him from German extermination camp....lucky him
Things are complicated.

I mean ....do i have really to choose which one i like better?
OK the communists.

04-11-12, 06:02 AM	#2
BossMark Fleet Admiral Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 15,272 Downloads: 278 Uploads: 0	R.I.P Raymond at least you didn't give in and surrender __________________ Never trust the Tories look what Thatcher and Major did in the 80s and 90s and look what the wicked witch May is doing now doing now

04-11-12, 06:15 AM	#3
kraznyi_oktjabr Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Republiken Finland Posts: 1,803 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	RIP ~SALUTE~ __________________ You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. - Dr. House

04-11-12, 06:36 AM	#4
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	RIP SIR! __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

04-11-12, 05:00 PM	#8
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I didn't know being a communist and being a resistance hero is mutually exclusive. Sorry, but communists had every bit as much of a role, if not more of a role, than anyone else in defeating Hitler. You may disagree with their politics, but I don't think their politics negates the role which they had in the war. By that logic, there isn't a single Russian hero in WWII and they were all just evil commies bent on taking over the world, no matter what they did. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

04-11-12, 04:21 PM	#6
_dgn_ Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: France Posts: 122 Downloads: 331 Uploads: 0	Some elements were oddly omitted : so some details are needed to refine the profile of the "hero". About Résistance, as communist, Aubrac began to resist only from mid 1941. Why only from mid 1941 ? Since Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (end August 1939), Germany and Soviet Russia were allies, so French communists (belonging to the Komintern) were not very concerned by the defense of France during the hostilities (between September 1939 - June 1940). September 1939 was also the end of the Spanish War, where communists were more active. For the first time in the history of France, a party (the Communist Party) was prohibited (in September 1939, by the Daladier government) : its elected officials (deputies, senators, mayors ...) were sent to jail, considered as traitors or agents of the enemy. So many communists disappeared in clandestinity. Some French communists deserted (as the chief of the party, Maurice Thorez, who flew in Russia), other made sabotages in military factories (and were shot on order of the Daladier government). When the German army won the Battle of France and occupied the country, a part of the communist leadars left the clandestinity, asking advantages to this enemy army (in particular the republication of their official newspaper, L'Humanité, or the release of their elected officials). But the real Résistance against Germans started in September 1939, followed by the fights in May and June 1940 (90 000 KIA for this period of 7 weeks. By comparison, during the hardest hours, there were 100 000 KIA each month at Verdun in 1916), followed after the defeat by dissimulation of weapons, military vehicles, helping British Intelligence services ... Communists were not very present here ! On 22 June 1941, Germany attacked Soviets. The situation became clearer for the communists in Europe : they were to help to defend the motherland (Soviet Russia). For Aubrac, it was time for him to enter the Résistance againt Nazism. With well orchestrated propaganda, fight for the motherland became gradually the fight for the fatherland (France) ... At the Libération, French Communist Party succeeded in making forget its quite particular role at the beginning of WWII, becoming on the contrary the champion of the combat against the Nazism. During generations, this (falsificated) French history was taught at the school, in the universities, were communists were numerous among the teachers. After WWII, friend of the good Hô-Chi-Minh, Aubrac continued to be useful to the Soviets during the Cold War, acting against France and NATO interests. Celebrated today in the media (were communism still has many sympathizers), Aubrac is a good example of these alleged symbols of French Resistance. It's also a good example of how the misinformation remains effective ...

04-11-12, 04:48 PM	#7
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	Good post _dgn_ I had no idea that french actually know that. Viva la France.