Q ships

[She-Wolf]

Best Beloved has just been telling me about the Q ships of WW1 and II ( not from personal experience you understand) - fascinating. I had to look the topic up on Wiki to see what that said, and learned that the US navy also used Q ships in the Pacific... made me wonder if the IJN did as well, and whether in SH4 I might fall foul of one of these beasties....? Don't suppose so but worth an ask

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by She-Wolf

Best Beloved has just been telling me about the Q ships of WW1 and II ( not from personal experience you understand) - fascinating. I had to look the topic up on Wiki to see what that said, and learned that the US navy also used Q ships in the Pacific... made me wonder if the IJN did as well, and whether in SH4 I might fall foul of one of these beasties....? Don't suppose so but worth an ask

The only Japanese Q-Ship I know of was the "Delhi Maru". She was sunk on her first mission by the "Swordfish" on January 15, 1944.

As far as I know, nobody has modded her. If this is done, she should be scripted in the campaign to appear near the entrance to Tokyo Bay on the day before her loss. She was about 2,000 tons, so I suppose the small Q-Ship created for Silent Hunter III could be imported to represent her.

There's some evidence that regional Japanese commanders may have designed Q-Ships, but these reports were never confirmed. "Delhi Maru" was the only official IJN-designated craft.

[She-Wolf]

thankyou IABL, I shall watch out for her at the appropriate time - just in case

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by She-Wolf

Best Beloved has just been telling me about the Q ships of WW1 and II ( not from personal experience you understand) - fascinating. I had to look the topic up on Wiki to see what that said, and learned that the US navy also used Q ships in the Pacific... made me wonder if the IJN did as well, and whether in SH4 I might fall foul of one of these beasties....? Don't suppose so but worth an ask

TMO has a qu ship made out of the small "Taihosan Maru" freighter, they are pretty tough actually.Just wish it appeared more.

[She-Wolf]

ahh..... I am in TMO

[Sailor Steve]

Q-Ships were most effective in the First World War because the policy of the U-boat service of that time was to surface, check the papers and cargo and then allow the ship to move on or allow the crew to abandon ship and sink it. This made a disguised ship with guns very deadly, taking the u-boat completely by surprise. The Germans then decided to protect their boats by torpedoing by surprise, and the British then cried "foul".

On the other hand the British of the First War took it to extremes, even having extra crew just to abandon ship when they saw the u-boat coming.

In World War 2 it's a tactic that works if the sub is trying to sink an apparently unarmed ship with the deck gun. Otherwise it's just another targt.

[Ewall007]

From 43 on aircraft patrols both Amearican an Britsh. Did a better job sinking U-Boats...

Ewall007
"Ranging Far, Sweeping Wide"
Quote from Victory at Sea 1955

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Q-Ships were most effective in the First World War because the policy of the U-boat service of that time was to surface, check the papers and cargo and then allow the ship to move on or allow the crew to abandon ship and sink it. This made a disguised ship with guns very deadly, taking the u-boat completely by surprise. The Germans then decided to protect their boats by torpedoing by surprise, and the British then cried "foul".

On the other hand the British of the First War took it to extremes, even having extra crew just to abandon ship when they saw the u-boat coming.

In World War 2 it's a tactic that works if the sub is trying to sink an apparently unarmed ship with the deck gun. Otherwise it's just another targt.

Also worked well when the q ship had a very shallow draft.Fluckey fouled up(admitted so in his book) and attacked a ship with torpedos that was a Japanese q ship with a shallow draft off Luzon in 1944.Several escorts soon boxed him in, they endured a depth charging for it.

[donna52522]

Joe Grenfell had a couple close calls with Q-ships in the USS Gudgeon, what appeared to be armed merchants that turned out to be shallow draft vessels complete with mid ship depth charge throwers....and this was in March 1942.

This is a drawing Grenfell turned in. Hope the scan out of the book, "Find'em, Chase'em, Sink'em" comes out ok.

[Char]

Correct,They are in TMO.They are a very nice deterrent to make Night Surface attacks with the Deck Gun.

They look pretty much like the Regular Taihosan Maru,and you usually don't catch on to them until it's too late.

[TorpX]

The Japanese also had some merchants with depth charge throwers or guns/mortars. I don't think these were Q-ships per se. Sometimes they tried to ram subs during an attack.

[Dread Knot]

The Japanese converted a large number of merchant vessels into gunboats and patrol ships. Given the reluctance of the IJN to give up it's destoyers and frigates for ASW duties, there simply weren't enough purpose built escort vessels available to meet the growing demand. Armament would vary from 2 to 4 small guns, like 3-inchers, and some light AA. It's possible that they were equipped with sub detection devices. I've read that the Japanese produced a hydrophone that was designed for installation into a merchant ship hull. Some of them appear to have carried depth charges, but whether that capability was any more advanced than a provision for dumping them over the side is hard to say. I doubt if the Japanese ever thought of these vessels as Q-ships, as no attempt was made to hide their aramament from view. They were converted mostly just to fend off an easy surface attack by a submarine or PT-Boat and to provide a modicum of air defense.

Throughout the war, the Japanese mounted depth charges on the most unlikely platforms. Even the carrier Unryu was armed with 30 depth charges, which would have been almost unthinkable for an Allied carrier.

Here's a model from a Japanese site of what one of these converted marus would have looked like. Not too different from the Grenfell sketch above.

[Fish40]

They're also in RFB as well. I just sunk it while sneaking into the harbor south of Naha on Okinawa. I must admit, this is actually my first harbor raid while playing this game. I am in the USS Trout in 42'. I was asked to patrol the waters near Okinawa, and after limited success, I decided to have a closer look in the harbors. I wasn't disappointed either. They're loaded! Naha proved too difficult due to the layout which put the ships behind protective seawalls. This would mean I would have to enter the Harbor proper, which is alittle too close for my comfort. The harbor to the South has proved easier. The ships are in the open!

This "Q" ship, actually listed as an Auxilliary Gunboat, is a small freighter. It was patrolling the harbor perimeter when it got too close for comfort and I pumped two fish into her. After the first impacted as a dud, her search lights opened up on me and she let loose a salvo from her deck guns. Soon after my second fish hit her and she erupted in a massive secondary explosion! Presently, I'm still sneaking my way into the harbor.




Edit: After the "Q" ship went down, I managed to get within range of a nice, fat Large Composit Freighter and finished her at her mooring with a spread of 3 torps, one being a dud. During my hasty departure I pumped 2 fish into a Medium Tanker. Both fish detonated which resulted in a massive fire, but because of the shallow bottom, she settled with most of her superstructure above water, and I didn't get credit for the sinking. The big freighter on the other hand rolled to one side covering most of her with water, so I did get the credit for that one!

Presently, I'm at the mouth of the harbor waiting to see if any traffic will try to leave.

[WernherVonTrapp]

According to one of my books, "Japanese Radar And Related Weapons of WWII" by Yasuzo Nakagawa, it alludes that the Japanese had inferior passive sonar microphones. Their submarines used the type 93 sonar developed in 1933 which used a dynamic microphone. During the mission to Germany in 1941, the Japnese learned that the Kriegsmarine was using "Rochelle Salt" in sonar and passive receiving. A much superior quality than the Jpanese were using. A model of the "Rochelle Salt" sonar was delivered to the Japanese on a return mission at Yokohama in October of 1942. A Japanese representative from NEC examined the German sonar and declared it "superior to anything Japan had at the time". It wasn't until early 1945 that Japan was ready to begin production of the new sonar at the Komukai plant of the Toshiba company in Kawasaki City, but the plant was subsequently destroyed during a B-29 Bomber attack. In light of this, that is, if this is true, it is highly unlikely that the Japanese were ever successful in placing effective sonar devices in merchant ships. If they did, they were most likely to be old, skeletonised, makeshift devices that produced little results, if and when they were even working properly.

Originally Posted by Fish40

I must admit, this is actually my first harbor raid while playing this game. I am in the USS Trout in 42'. I was asked to patrol the waters near Okinawa, and after limited success, I decided to have a closer look in the harbors. I wasn't disappointed either. They're loaded! Naha proved too difficult due to the layout which put the ships behind protective seawalls. This would mean I would have to enter the Harbor proper, which is alittle too close for my comfort. The harbor to the South has proved easier. The ships are in the open!

These harbors are regulars on my list of targets. Itoman is in fact easier, but Naha is by no means impregnable. Since the ships are all docked, you can use long range attacks while remaining just below the surface at battery depth. I usually attack from two angles from both the north and south openings. This way, I can hit almost every ship in the harbor. And yes, these two harbors are always filled with merchants, usually some large and medium tankers too.

[She-Wolf]

coo, lots of interesting and useful info here - thank you all