"Kiel inbound" plotted course option doesn't work properly

jaxa · 03-15-12, 03:28 PM

I have problem with "Kiel inbound" plotted corse option - it's inverted like in mirror. I sail to start point of Kiel canal, choose Kiel inbound and I see plotted course not through Kiel canal but reversed. What's up?

Sailor Steve · 03-15-12, 04:00 PM

Where exactly do you mean by "start point"? There is a plot point outside the canal.

On the other hand I never use it, but always do my own plotting, so what do I know?

Mittelwaechter · 03-15-12, 04:57 PM

All pre-plotted courses are dependent on your own course of approach. Your last waypoint has to be in the south-west sector of the Kiel-Canal-Inbound waypoint to unfold into it's opposite (north-east) quadrant.

Tinman764 · 03-15-12, 05:09 PM

Not to derail the thread, but I've always wondered if it's possible to influence the direction of the automatic search pattern, it never seems to go in the direction I want.

Mittelwaechter · 03-15-12, 06:19 PM

Your heading into the first waypoint of the plotted course decides the way the course unfolds.

Say the crossing point of an x and y axis is the first defined point of the pre-plotted course.
The cross defines four sectors or quadrants, counting 1 to 4 clockwise from upper left to lower left.
The course unfolds into the diagonal opposite sector.

If you come from quadrant 4 (south-west) the pre-plotted course will unfold upwards and to the right - into sector 2.
If you come from quadrant 1 (north-west) the course will unfold downwards and to the right.
If you want it to unfold upwards and to the left you have to come from sector 3 (south-east).

If still unclear I can draw a sketch.

Mittelwaechter · 03-15-12, 06:24 PM

Your heading into the first waypoint of the plotted course decides the way the course unfolds.

Say the crossing point of an x and y axis is the first defined point of the pre-plotted course.
The cross defines four sectors or quadrants, counting 1 to 4 clockwise from upper left to lower left.
The course unfolds into the diagonal opposite sector.

If you come from quadrant 4 (south-west) the pre-plotted course will unfold upwards and to the right - into sector 2.
If you come from quadrant 1 (north-west) the course will unfold downwards and to the right.
If you want it to unfold upwards and to the left you have to come from sector 3 (south-east).

If still unclear I can draw a sketch.

EDIT: I'm a bit confused myself right now, because it's been a while I used the feature and I think it was even a bit more complicated.
Will try to research...

Gargamel · 03-15-12, 07:09 PM

For mw:

If your course is NW, then finish point will be to the NW.

As to OP:

Inbound means you are returning FROM the north sea. Your map should have a start point already indicated. Start your inbound course there. Out bound takes you from the dock to the north sea.

Mittelwaechter · 03-15-12, 07:53 PM

Ockham's razor leads to Gargamel's most elegant explanation.

Raptor · 03-15-12, 09:34 PM

The automated course doesn't work if you use the Start at Sea mod. You'll go aground quickly.

Mittelwaechter · 03-15-12, 10:21 PM

It works if you do it right.

Outbound - starting at sea - (pass the locks, then) out of the correct sector (upper right?) put your last waypoint exactly onto the outbound waypoint (zoom in!) and ask your navigator to plot the course.

Edit:

Jimbuna · 03-16-12, 07:10 AM

Good informative post

Gargamel · 03-16-12, 08:11 PM

Does it still work with the Kiel mod? Don't the locks get in the way?

Mittelwaechter · 03-17-12, 05:41 AM

Well - if you play a plain GWX version - without the locks modded in - you have to ask your navigator to plot the outbound course right after the game starts or you will mess it up.

If you play a 'locks in there' modded version (like LSH) you should have two relocated navigation points for the auto-course feature. You have to pass the locks first, then navigate to the according points.

The 'Inbound' sketch shows the 'unlocked' scenery, the 'Outbound' sketch shows the situation after passing the locks - or as stated - after starting at sea.

Edit: I just realized I don't know if there is a 'start at sea - without locks - but with useful/correct outbound navigation point' mod.

@ Raptor
If this is your problem, you may want to copy the outbound data from LSH into your SH3 files. I guess it should work. Or install a standalone 'locks mod' and see if it provides the needed navigation points.
Or - probably the most simple solution - modify your existing outbound course. Replace the original startpoint data with the startpoint data of your 'start at sea' location. You may have to relocate the following one or two points either.

Edit2: or even better: delete the first few waypoints of your existing outbound course and use an existing canal nav point as starting point 'at sea'. You would have to copy that location into your 'start at sea' mod resulting in a 'start in canal' mod.

jaxa · 03-17-12, 11:27 AM

Thanks Mittelwaechter, your solution was proper

9emini · 03-17-12, 08:01 PM

This board is phenomenal. I just dropped by to ask this exact same question, having never ever seen it discussed here before.

But why the dependence on approach vector? There's no use for inverted Kiel courses are there?!

03-15-12, 03:28 PM	#1
jaxa The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 1,501 Downloads: 418 Uploads: 0	"Kiel inbound" plotted course option doesn't work properly I have problem with "Kiel inbound" plotted corse option - it's inverted like in mirror. I sail to start point of Kiel canal, choose Kiel inbound and I see plotted course not through Kiel canal but reversed. What's up? __________________ SHIII + GWX 3 Gold + V16B1 hardcode fixes + SH3Commander SHIV + OM + OMEGU SHV + WoS

03-15-12, 04:00 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Where exactly do you mean by "start point"? There is a plot point outside the canal. On the other hand I never use it, but always do my own plotting, so what do I know? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-15-12, 04:57 PM	#3
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	All pre-plotted courses are dependent on your own course of approach. Your last waypoint has to be in the south-west sector of the Kiel-Canal-Inbound waypoint to unfold into it's opposite (north-east) quadrant. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-15-12, 06:19 PM	#5
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Your heading into the first waypoint of the plotted course decides the way the course unfolds. Say the crossing point of an x and y axis is the first defined point of the pre-plotted course. The cross defines four sectors or quadrants, counting 1 to 4 clockwise from upper left to lower left. The course unfolds into the diagonal opposite sector. If you come from quadrant 4 (south-west) the pre-plotted course will unfold upwards and to the right - into sector 2. If you come from quadrant 1 (north-west) the course will unfold downwards and to the right. If you want it to unfold upwards and to the left you have to come from sector 3 (south-east). If still unclear I can draw a sketch. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-15-12, 06:24 PM	#6
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Your heading into the first waypoint of the plotted course decides the way the course unfolds. Say the crossing point of an x and y axis is the first defined point of the pre-plotted course. The cross defines four sectors or quadrants, counting 1 to 4 clockwise from upper left to lower left. The course unfolds into the diagonal opposite sector. If you come from quadrant 4 (south-west) the pre-plotted course will unfold upwards and to the right - into sector 2. If you come from quadrant 1 (north-west) the course will unfold downwards and to the right. If you want it to unfold upwards and to the left you have to come from sector 3 (south-east). If still unclear I can draw a sketch. EDIT: I'm a bit confused myself right now, because it's been a while I used the feature and I think it was even a bit more complicated. Will try to research... __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 03-15-12 at 06:46 PM.

03-15-12, 05:09 PM	#4
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 182 Uploads: 0	Not to derail the thread, but I've always wondered if it's possible to influence the direction of the automatic search pattern, it never seems to go in the direction I want.

03-15-12, 07:09 PM	#7
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	For mw: If your course is NW, then finish point will be to the NW. As to OP: Inbound means you are returning FROM the north sea. Your map should have a start point already indicated. Start your inbound course there. Out bound takes you from the dock to the north sea. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

03-15-12, 07:53 PM	#8
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Ockham's razor leads to Gargamel's most elegant explanation. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-15-12, 09:34 PM	#9
Raptor Weps Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pacific NW, USA Posts: 350 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	The automated course doesn't work if you use the Start at Sea mod. You'll go aground quickly. __________________ Raptor

03-15-12, 10:21 PM	#10
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	It works if you do it right. Outbound - starting at sea - (pass the locks, then) out of the correct sector (upper right?) put your last waypoint exactly onto the outbound waypoint (zoom in!) and ask your navigator to plot the course. Edit: __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 03-15-12 at 10:43 PM.

03-16-12, 07:10 AM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Good informative post __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-16-12, 08:11 PM	#12
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Does it still work with the Kiel mod? Don't the locks get in the way? __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

03-17-12, 05:41 AM	#13
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Well - if you play a plain GWX version - without the locks modded in - you have to ask your navigator to plot the outbound course right after the game starts or you will mess it up. If you play a 'locks in there' modded version (like LSH) you should have two relocated navigation points for the auto-course feature. You have to pass the locks first, then navigate to the according points. The 'Inbound' sketch shows the 'unlocked' scenery, the 'Outbound' sketch shows the situation after passing the locks - or as stated - after starting at sea. Edit: I just realized I don't know if there is a 'start at sea - without locks - but with useful/correct outbound navigation point' mod. @ Raptor If this is your problem, you may want to copy the outbound data from LSH into your SH3 files. I guess it should work. Or install a standalone 'locks mod' and see if it provides the needed navigation points. Or - probably the most simple solution - modify your existing outbound course. Replace the original startpoint data with the startpoint data of your 'start at sea' location. You may have to relocate the following one or two points either. Edit2: or even better: delete the first few waypoints of your existing outbound course and use an existing canal nav point as starting point 'at sea'. You would have to copy that location into your 'start at sea' mod resulting in a 'start in canal' mod. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE Last edited by Mittelwaechter; 03-17-12 at 06:35 AM.

03-17-12, 11:27 AM	#14
jaxa The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 1,501 Downloads: 418 Uploads: 0	Thanks Mittelwaechter, your solution was proper __________________ SHIII + GWX 3 Gold + V16B1 hardcode fixes + SH3Commander SHIV + OM + OMEGU SHV + WoS

03-17-12, 08:01 PM	#15
9emini Seaman Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Aboard the Galaga Posts: 37 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	This board is phenomenal. I just dropped by to ask this exact same question, having never ever seen it discussed here before. But why the dependence on approach vector? There's no use for inverted Kiel courses are there?! __________________ SH3 + GWX3.0 + 100% realism + restart patrol if sunk + no TC =