Legitimacy of an illegitimate regime

[Onkel Neal]

The coverage of a managed election, of the kind that took place in Russia on Sunday, is necessarily different. The candidates' views are irrelevant; the public's views are of marginal interest. The question of who won and who lost is also uninteresting, since everyone, even those who are paid to pretend otherwise, know the outcome has been predetermined.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._big_win_.html

Simply pathetic.

Simply pathetic.

You could at least pretend to be surprised.
Look on the bright side, he is only claiming to have won a rigged election and is locking up anyone who says otherwise.
It isn't like he is claiming to have discovered priceless antiques as he was performing brain surgery while fighting off a yeti using only one hand with the noble art of dimac...thats all going to happen in next weeks installment of "real breaking news of Superputins adventures in the Motherland".

[the_tyrant]

Ahh, who cares
he has the power you know, legitimacy is good, but power is what really matters

[August]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Ahh, who cares
he has the power you know, legitimacy is good, but power is what really matters

Illegitimate power is called tyranny.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by August

Illegitimate power is called tyranny.

[CCIP]

I've been (obviously) following some of the opposition blogosphere, and what my relatives in Russia have been up to. One interesting observation that several have made - since yesterday, Russian online queries for "immigration to Canada", "immigration to US", "immigration to Australia" and other Western countries have increased to about twice the level they are normally at. Hardly a surprise - there are a lot of disappointed people there right now, and many people who frankly feel threatened. Reminds me of exactly why I'm not there with them...

My grandmother in St. Petersburg volunteered to be a poll observer on behalf of an opposition party, and was actually turned away because they had more people volunteering than they knew what to do with. If nothing else, that's certainly a positive sign - it's safe to say that over the last few months, Russians have 'cared' and have certainly been more incensed over the situation than they have been in almost 20 years. While powerless to do much about it right now, the fact that there is such vocal discontent is encouraging. There is, finally, an awakening of civic consciousness in Russia - something that's been more or less asleep since the early 90s. They'll keep doing what they can. Marches and rallies are scheduled throughout the week, and I think the turnouts will be pretty serious indeed.

[Stealhead]

Putin was popular for some time he did many things that a lot of Russians liked(or perhaps a few years back fewer Russians where willing to express their feelings) now though it seems many tire of his ways it has become more obvious that he is more or less a tyrant.It is always a little fishy when most every major party in a nation "endorses" the same guy that would be like the GOP and Dems here is the US backing the same candidate.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Illegitimate power is called tyranny.

Kill all kinds of lobbyists then. They claim illegitimate powers for themselves, by bypassing voter's will.
Kill all democratic politicians, too. I know not a single name here in Euroope who dares to say that lobbyism should be completely abandoned.
Kill all parliaments and Western governments, too. They already have externalised most of the legislation and law-creating details to private business, private lawyers, and lobby groups that then have more or less card blanch to tailor the laws to their likings. In Germany, an esitmated three quarters of laws get tailored and detailed, defioned and worded by non-governmental contractors who almost always have lobby links. I bet money it is not much different in America. Seeing the political dynasties and the clans of multi-millionairs diominating the poltiical landscape, I would say it is even worse.

You can vote, yes. But you cannot chose. It'S always the system's own creations set up for election. I wonder why?

Putin is no democrat. But he has brought back stability and calculability - and from a QWetsern perspective thes emust be our prioritities. Russia is threatened by immense inner ethnic tensions, and already must fight real hard to more or less maintain a reliable monitoring system and control of its nuclear weapons and nuclear technology system.

Russia falling into civil war or getting ripped apart by Wetsern predators like under Yeltzin - that is a nightmare scenario.

And as a matter of fact, most Russians became better off not under Yeltzin who sold out his country and did not even realise it, but in the years under Putin. A contrast between cities and rural areas remains, however.

Realpolitik. It'S the only way to deal with Russia. It is not Asia. It is not Europe or the West. It is Russia. It mjst not copy anyone in the West, even more so when the Wetsern system are as corrupted and rotten as any other, claimed inferior country in the world. By mneaning and idea, our countries were meant to be nice. But the reality today is they get eaten up by corruption and - business lobbyism.

That'S why I can live with Putin. Sympathy with the man or Russian politics has nothing to do with it. It simply is Western self-interest on my side.

BTW, Putin indeed is a tyrant, in the ancient Greek understanding of the term. Originally, a tyrant had not the negative connotation we add to the word today, it simply meant the reigning by one man alone - for better or worse.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by August

Illegitimate power is called tyranny.

its not like he cares, and its not like the opinion of the internet effects his power. Frankly, as an ex KGB man, Putin is probably laughing right now

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

Illegitimate power is called tyranny.

Another massive decline in what was already a low credibility rating but I doubt he cares...he has achieved what he set out to do.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

its not like he cares, and its not like the opinion of the internet effects his power. Frankly, as an ex KGB man, Putin is probably laughing right now

So what's the point of your postings?
Obviously you don't care for other people's freedom and you show an alarming sympathy for authoritian leadership.
If you are not interested in reading opinions in the web about Putin, don't read and don't post in this thread.
Will we change something in the little discussion on here? Probably not, but this is not the point of a discussion or an exchange of information. Personally I found CCIP's posting very informative, as he writes from a semi-insider's perspective.
However the web is not the real world; there are some very real people in the very real Russia against Putin:

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Kill all kinds of lobbyists then....
Kill all parliaments and Western governments, too....

I'm not killing anyone. How do you get that from what I said? Illegitimate power is tyranny. Simple. Whether you personally can live with a tyrant (in any sense of the word) or not is immaterial.

Tyranny needs acceptance to establish itself. When good people like yourself accept tyrants you encourage them to become more tyrannical.

[Catfish]

I'd say Russia is appx. in the state of a gold rush, pretty much like the US was at the end of the 19th century, maybe until 1920. It will be THE economic power of the next decades.
In Russia there is no real foundation or buffer between head of the state and common man, this storey has to be slowly "colonized" or filled up by a real middle class. At the same time now in Russia the secret service is not able to control the people anymore, it just happens to be still one of the biggest employers. But it sure is Putin's last election, wait a few years and things will sort out.

On the other hand, if the US goes on with spending one trillion dollars for the F-35 alone, just to boast about "who has the longest .." providing an outer threat that keps people like Putin afloat, it may well be things develop differently. From overwhelming debts to the perception of the rest of the world

[Penguin]

The problem I have with Sky's utopia, is that whatever form of system you have: when it's for and from the people (a key factor for me), folks will always form interest groups.
As much as we need a reboot, a fresh start, maybe a refreshing of the tree of liberty, as long as there are two people out there with the same interests, they will form alliances - call it lobbies, initiatives or parties. It's always the question how much influence you want to give to them - no question that our current system, which grants the most influence to the entities with the most bucks, is sick and corrupt.

[AVGWarhawk]

I hear he voted himself in as sexiest man alive.