What's up in England ?! "Total surveillance", this time ?

Catfish · 02-10-12, 08:14 AM

Just happened to read that every car with passengers is being filmed in England continuously, and the contents stored for two years. Maybe someone might become a terrorist later.
Now it's also all along the motorways and even small roads - not the big TV cameras, but hidden.

Again under the pretext of the "war against terror", all kinds of anti-social and fascist surveillance systems are being installed.
Rights once given away, will never be given back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-...ANPR_in_the_UK

Oberon · 02-10-12, 08:27 AM

Herr-Berbunch · 02-10-12, 08:57 AM

Doesn't bother me, firstly my main route I only pass two businesses that have CCTV until I get to work - then I'm on about 20!!! Secondly, my car is taxed and insured correctly, and I have the correct licence. I always wear my seatbelt, but do occasionally speed (shhhhh!) if I'm running a little behind.

I have nothing to hide.

Well, nothing to do with a vehicle.

mookiemookie · 02-10-12, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Doesn't bother me, firstly my main route I only pass two businesses that have CCTV until I get to work - then I'm on about 20!!! Secondly, my car is taxed and insured correctly, and I have the correct licence. I always wear my seatbelt, but do occasionally speed (shhhhh!) if I'm running a little behind.

I have nothing to hide.

Well, nothing to do with a vehicle.

The "I have nothing to hide" argument ignores the fact that people have a right to privacy. Do you have curtains or blinds in your house? If you have nothing to hide, then why would you?

1984 was about enforcing compliance and social control through constant surveillance. That's kind of scary. Where does it end? Today you're being watched to prevent terrorism. Tomorrow those same cameras are being used to ensure you're not a threat to someone's entrenched power. Allowing constant surveillance gives the government a tremendous amount of power, and with that, the tremendous potential for abuse of that power. And the worst part is that you can't do anything about it.

Privacy isn't always about hiding the things someone is doing wrong.

Herr-Berbunch · 02-10-12, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Do you have curtains or blinds in your house? If you have nothing to hide, then why would you?

I have curtains and blinds, the only ones that ever get closed are the bedrooms/bathroom, the rest are wide open all the time (unless lazy stepson is watching TV on a really sunny day!).

I get your point though.

Skybird · 02-10-12, 09:29 AM

Imagine a scenario were a native right or left terror group or an Islamic terror group manages to set off a nuclear bomb in Frankfurt, or London. Or worse, a possible attack with an epidemic biological agent that got stolen from a high-sec lab.

Not only would such data krakening measurements be intensified - people would even call for and embrace a tighter police state.

And business does not become tired to tell us how great it would be if we would have iris scanners everywhere so that personalised adverts pop up on your display/cellphone/eye-visor/holographically on the pavement whenever you pass that corner of the street, or enter that building and pass the entrance barrier at the shop. Fan-tas-tic!

I have just ordered for a telephone barrier that allows me to sort out all numbers I want to block because callcenter terror has become so intense for me that it is worth for me to pay those additional 3 bucks per month (I use hardwire telephone, no voice-over IP, when my computer is not running, my modem does not run, too). In the end I got called 2-4 times per day. For Germany, this is not the rule and certainly an extreme, but what help is that for me - I am one of the lucky guys anyway. Complaints, mails, calls, emails, nothing helped, and starting lawcases I could not afford nor is it worth the effort to me. These companies violate existing laws in Germany - but they obviously do not care. The panlties that threaten them if sentenced by far get outclassed by the potential benefit of just continuing. - And please - always keep a balanced view - consider callcenters' business interests, too! they made it their business to harass people, so let them - else it costs (bad quality) jobs in these callcenters!

Lovely logic.

People too easily prefer not to care for the small symptoms of data krakening and the softening of privacy protection laws. Or using legal options is too expensive or too much of a hassle. The result is the creeping exploitation of that laziness or these hurdles that make existing options for resistance practically unavailable, an exploitation meant to install according surveillance mechanisms without resistence from the public.

On the other hand, rivalling economic countries or openly hostile factions would not stop to turn technology against us just because we call their technological measurements illegal. The highest spy activity against German industry is coming from China - second highest intensity in industrial espionage comes from our close friends and allies: the Americans, who also overhear practically all our private communication traffic as well. So...?!

Our dilemma is not the implementation of surveillance, but that the possiblities of technology get exploited by our own side, against the people, as well as that we have no reason to trust our own authorities anymore. They are not in our defence and on our side - they are in defence of their own careers, and ambitions to claim power and influence. In other words, not technology is our problem, but the rottening from inside, the corruption, and the movement back to aristocratic, neo-feudal power structures in our societies' "elites" and governments.

The bigger the opportunity for abuse and the bigger the chance to get away with it, the bigger the resulting abuse that actually takes place. Where there is no deterrance, there is no deterrance. Not difficult, isn't it. What to do? I honestly don'T know.

More and more often I end up concluding on the present state of the world and the situations we find ourselves in, that it compares to the story of the magician's apprentice who started more than he could handle. I indeed think that in a way we have lost control. Our technical intelligence raced ahead, our hands create like crazy. Our ethical ripening, our morality lags behind, is left behind in the dust.

August · 02-10-12, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I have just ordered for a telephone barrier that allows me to sort out all numbers I want to block

Really? I have been looking for a device like that. Could you post a product link please?

mookiemookie · 02-10-12, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Really? I have been looking for a device like that. Could you post a product link please?

http://www.privacycorps.com/products/?id=20

Skybird · 02-10-12, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Really? I have been looking for a device like that. Could you post a product link please?

It'S no device but a service by the telephone company. It allows me to establish black- and whitelists with single numbers or number-areas (all numbers from one city, for example), or combine the two, it is beign done via telephone code remote control, and is pretty easy. The calls then get filtered and blocked in their centre and do not reach me. It is also possible to combine black- and whitelists, for example blocking all numbers from the area of Gelsenkirchen since they have so many callcentres there, but allowing one single number of a possible friend living there passing through. I can also block ALL incoming calls, and just defining those numbers I want to allow passing - an option I feel highly attracted by.

I'm an island junkey.

Anyhow, ask your telephone provider.

If you use voice-over-IP or any computer modem, there could be options in the modem software to block numbers. I read that some modems come with that option. With telephoning done via computer, there surely are options for blocking numbers without needing external services.

Hm. The telephone company now getting 3 bucks to launch that service, also earns money by supporting the callcenter in the first. They cash twice. Wrong world, but I cannot help it.

02-10-12, 08:14 AM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,767 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	What's up in England ?! "Total surveillance", this time ? Just happened to read that every car with passengers is being filmed in England continuously, and the contents stored for two years. Maybe someone might become a terrorist later. Now it's also all along the motorways and even small roads - not the big TV cameras, but hidden. Again under the pretext of the "war against terror", all kinds of anti-social and fascist surveillance systems are being installed. Rights once given away, will never be given back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-...ANPR_in_the_UK

02-10-12, 08:57 AM	#3
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Doesn't bother me, firstly my main route I only pass two businesses that have CCTV until I get to work - then I'm on about 20!!! Secondly, my car is taxed and insured correctly, and I have the correct licence. I always wear my seatbelt, but do occasionally speed (shhhhh!) if I'm running a little behind. I have nothing to hide. Well, nothing to do with a vehicle. __________________

02-10-12, 09:29 AM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,635 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Imagine a scenario were a native right or left terror group or an Islamic terror group manages to set off a nuclear bomb in Frankfurt, or London. Or worse, a possible attack with an epidemic biological agent that got stolen from a high-sec lab. Not only would such data krakening measurements be intensified - people would even call for and embrace a tighter police state. And business does not become tired to tell us how great it would be if we would have iris scanners everywhere so that personalised adverts pop up on your display/cellphone/eye-visor/holographically on the pavement whenever you pass that corner of the street, or enter that building and pass the entrance barrier at the shop. Fan-tas-tic! I have just ordered for a telephone barrier that allows me to sort out all numbers I want to block because callcenter terror has become so intense for me that it is worth for me to pay those additional 3 bucks per month (I use hardwire telephone, no voice-over IP, when my computer is not running, my modem does not run, too). In the end I got called 2-4 times per day. For Germany, this is not the rule and certainly an extreme, but what help is that for me - I am one of the lucky guys anyway. Complaints, mails, calls, emails, nothing helped, and starting lawcases I could not afford nor is it worth the effort to me. These companies violate existing laws in Germany - but they obviously do not care. The panlties that threaten them if sentenced by far get outclassed by the potential benefit of just continuing. - And please - always keep a balanced view - consider callcenters' business interests, too! they made it their business to harass people, so let them - else it costs (bad quality) jobs in these callcenters! Lovely logic. People too easily prefer not to care for the small symptoms of data krakening and the softening of privacy protection laws. Or using legal options is too expensive or too much of a hassle. The result is the creeping exploitation of that laziness or these hurdles that make existing options for resistance practically unavailable, an exploitation meant to install according surveillance mechanisms without resistence from the public. On the other hand, rivalling economic countries or openly hostile factions would not stop to turn technology against us just because we call their technological measurements illegal. The highest spy activity against German industry is coming from China - second highest intensity in industrial espionage comes from our close friends and allies: the Americans, who also overhear practically all our private communication traffic as well. So...?! Our dilemma is not the implementation of surveillance, but that the possiblities of technology get exploited by our own side, against the people, as well as that we have no reason to trust our own authorities anymore. They are not in our defence and on our side - they are in defence of their own careers, and ambitions to claim power and influence. In other words, not technology is our problem, but the rottening from inside, the corruption, and the movement back to aristocratic, neo-feudal power structures in our societies' "elites" and governments. The bigger the opportunity for abuse and the bigger the chance to get away with it, the bigger the resulting abuse that actually takes place. Where there is no deterrance, there is no deterrance. Not difficult, isn't it. What to do? I honestly don'T know. More and more often I end up concluding on the present state of the world and the situations we find ourselves in, that it compares to the story of the magician's apprentice who started more than he could handle. I indeed think that in a way we have lost control. Our technical intelligence raced ahead, our hands create like crazy. Our ethical ripening, our morality lags behind, is left behind in the dust. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-10-12, 08:27 AM	#2
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20