By A Hair!

[Fish40]

November 43', and it's my first patrol in my newly aquired Balao (SS Balao). Our first patrol area was NW of the Palau Isls. After a fruitless 72hrs, we were sent to patrol the chokepoints in the Celebes Sea where we finally drew blood. Although a modest kill in the form of a 4k ton freighter, the crew was happy for the victory. Little did I know, that this was to be our only kill!I tried patrolling the lanes that our victim was traveling for several days in the hopes that another target would wander our way, but no go.

After patrolling several other areas that were assigned to us via radio messages, and comeing up empty, it was time to start heading back. A brief and exciting encounter with an enemy Destroyer off the Palaus on the way back nearly ended it for us thanks to faulty torpedoes I was mindful of my fuel levels, but my determinations to get us more than 4k tons had left me dangerously low. Plotting a course for Midway, and asking my Navigator our max range at current speed (10kts), confirmed my fears. A sick pit formed in my stomach as I realised we would be just over 100 miles short of Midway. The electric motors may save us, but I'd hate to depend on batteries. I plotted courses for every alternate base in the area, but Midway was the closest at this point.

I'm happy to report that after altering my course and speed slightly, I think I'm gonna make it! My Navigator now tells me our max range is 1259nm, and the distance to Midway is 1155nm. The seas have been fairly calm with partially cloudy skies. If this weather holds, we should make it by a hair!!

[andy_311]

You could have gone to Truk traffic there is usally high.

[magic452]

I had just the opposite type of thing. Had just enough fuel to make Midway but the weather turned bad for several days and killed my fuel. I did get close enough to make it on batteries but just barely, had less then 25% left.
You better hope the weather holds.

I have had no luck at all in the Palau area, in fact I'm stuck there now with nothing to shoot for weeks.
Might take andy 311 advice and try Truk.

Magic

[Bubblehead1980]

A little trick for the Balao/Gato/Tench in TMO is to travel to and from patrol are at ahead standard(which is 15 knots as they did in RL usually) which will give you a decent speed of advance.Once in the area when conducting regular surface patrol, order ahead 2/3 then go to the knot o meter and order 12-12.5 knots.This gives you a nice patrol speed but saves a lot of fuel, extending your time on station quite a bit, also saves fuel for long pursuits at high speeds of convoys, recharging batteries etc.

I remember the speeds and range in stock were screwed, just thought I'd inform you in case you are running TMO.

[Armistead]

WIth TMO 2.2 I can go around the world twice if I wanted, fuel is no longer an issue, slow it down to 9kts. 15 knots gives you the old 9kt milage, why 9kts u can go on and on

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

A little trick for the Balao/Gato/Tench in TMO is to travel to and from patrol are at ahead standard(which is 15 knots as they did in RL usually)

No, they didn't. They were called 'Fleet Boats' because they were originally designed to travel with and support the surface fleet, which did indeed travel at 15 knots. The concept was that the boats would be refueled at sea, just like their surface counterparts.

Best cruising speed was 10 knots.
http://www.valoratsea.com/gato.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08212a.htm

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, they didn't. They were called 'Fleet Boats' because they were originally designed to travel with and support the surface fleet, which did indeed travel at 15 knots. The concept was that the boats would be refueled at sea, just like their surface counterparts.

Best cruising speed was 10 knots.
http://www.valoratsea.com/gato.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08212a.htm

Hmm, nearly every account i've read says they would cruise at ahead standard or around 15 knots to and from area unless fuel was low or were assigned to area far away.Example would be the Tang's second patrol(or first), they cruised slower to save fuel since were traveling to Palau then Truk etc

Do the sources you posted account for the ballast tanks being converted to carry extra fuel? Prob not is my guess. Like I maintained during the max speed debate we had, there is what is officiially listed on paper and what went on in RL.When read multiple accounts by O Kane, Galatin etc etc talking about cruising to and from area at 15 knots(in most cases) I'm going with their account, plus it makes sense.While those are decent sites, my guess is they operate strictly off official specs/data about what they were designed to do, not what they are capable of in RL due to different variables.

11,800 miles at 10 knots? okay, but a typical patrol from Pearl to the Empire would include a stop at Midway for fuel enroute.Then empire waters is what? 2300 nautical miles from Midway ? okay so would cruise there at 15, slow down or not once in area, depending on the skipper and extra fuel, then cruise back at 15(unless burned a lot during the patrol chasing targets etc) and refuel at Midway on the way home.Sure, if they have no where to refuel etc they would prob cruise there slow, stay slow and come back at 10 knots but with tank conversion and place for pit stop, they could do more.Even if patrol was in far reaches of East China Sea, its 3500 orso roughly, but with the extra fuel and pit stop to and from the area, can operate at more than ten knots and be just fine.

Like I was saying ahead standard in TMO is 15 knots, believe ducimus said he made it so to be more accurate.

Everything is not so black and white Steve.

[Sailor Steve]

Fair enough. Your're probably right. On the other hand, the fact that they could do that doesn't change the fact that the boat's best economy is still at 10 knots. I believe Ducimus was wrong about that and I said so at the time.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Everything is not so black and white Steve.

Maybe you aren't the one to talk about black and white. In the previous discussion I backed off and tried to turn it into an open discussion about the problems of one versus the other, and it turned into a fairly interesting conversation, which you dropped out of. When you came back your contribution was "They said they did it, and that's good enough for me", which is fine, but much more black-and-white than anything I said.

So, maybe they did and maybe they didn't. You're probably right. Sorry I intruded.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Fair enough. Your're probably right. On the other hand, the fact that they could do that doesn't change the fact that the boat's best economy is still at 10 knots. I believe Ducimus was wrong about that and I said so at the time.


Maybe you aren't the one to talk about black and white. In the previous discussion I backed off and tried to turn it into an open discussion about the problems of one versus the other, and it turned into a fairly interesting conversation, which you dropped out of. When you came back your contribution was "They said they did it, and that's good enough for me", which is fine, but much more black-and-white than anything I said.

So, maybe they did and maybe they didn't. You're probably right. Sorry I intruded.

I was simply saying they did in fact cruise at 15 knots usually since they had extra fuel and could make the pit stop at Midway etc, the Gato/Balao/Tench boats could do so.I did not dispute that 10 knots is prob their best fuel economy, no doubts many slowed down usually to save fuel once in the area, of course different variables would dictate this but 15 was a nice balance to cruise to an area and home, cut transit time down a bit.

Well in the previous discussion I felt we were at a stalemate because while I understood the black and white side of things, ie the tech data said the top speed was 20.25 knots, several of the men who were actually there have authored accounts saying when operating outside the black and white of tech specs in the real world, they had pushed their boats to make an extra 2 or 3 knots when in emergencies that called for it.I tend to trust someone's first hand account as long as their word is solid and not talking something that is impossible, which getting a little extra performance from machinery via different methods is not unheard of.However, you still disagreed, I felt there was no way to change your mind and so I decided to just let it go.

No need to apologize, you were no intruding, no problem with you contributing, nothing personal on my end just felt when I was corrected in error I needed to respond, as I did.

[commandosolo2009]

As soon as the patrol starts, plot a 4000 km circle from base. Knowing that 25% of fuel gets you to 4000+ at ahead 1/3, you might as well have a limit to your progress, and never fall into fuel headache ever...

On a side note, I once had to hump it back to MW in 2 knots speed, and pretty much your situation isnt that delicate. I suggest you do some shakedown at 1000 km increments, and record fuel consumption at various speeds each time.

And make sure the crewman who increases your range (if any) is in the engine compartment.

[Daniel Prates]

Jeez solo, I can read those large fonts you used from space!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I was simply saying they did in fact cruise at 15 knots usually since they had extra fuel and could make the pit stop at Midway etc, the Gato/Balao/Tench boats could do so.I did not dispute that 10 knots is prob their best fuel economy, no doubts many slowed down usually to save fuel once in the area, of course different variables would dictate this but 15 was a nice balance to cruise to an area and home, cut transit time down a bit.

I completely agree. On the other hand I don't think setting the best fuel usage for 15 knots is an accurate answer to the problem.

Well in the previous discussion I felt we were at a stalemate because while I understood the black and white side of things, ie the tech data said the top speed was 20.25 knots, several of the men who were actually there have authored accounts saying when operating outside the black and white of tech specs in the real world, they had pushed their boats to make an extra 2 or 3 knots when in emergencies that called for it.I tend to trust someone's first hand account as long as their word is solid and not talking something that is impossible, which getting a little extra performance from machinery via different methods is not unheard of.However, you still disagreed, I felt there was no way to change your mind and so I decided to just let it go.

But I didn't still disagree. I ended up making a lengthy post about the problems involving both sides of the question, to which you wouldn't take part, except to say you believed one side and had no problem. I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but we obviously have different definitions of "black & white".

No need to apologize, you were no intruding, no problem with you contributing, nothing personal on my end just felt when I was corrected in error I needed to respond, as I did.

And you were right to.

[commandosolo2009]

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Jeez solo, I can read those large fonts you used from space!

Oi. splice the mainbrace and hoist the mizzen

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I completely agree. On the other hand I don't think setting the best fuel usage for 15 knots is an accurate answer to the problem.


But I didn't still disagree. I ended up making a lengthy post about the problems involving both sides of the question, to which you wouldn't take part, except to say you believed one side and had no problem. I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but we obviously have different definitions of "black & white".


And you were right to.

I forgot to note that 15 knots really is not the best fuel, its just a decent trade off for speed and fuel esp when in transit to area. 10 knots will still get you better range in TMO i've found, just use the use the button that gives you max range at speed.I usually if far from base cruise in at 15, then drop to 12 knots to conserve fuel but cover patrol area on a reasonable time table.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I forgot to note that 15 knots really is not the best fuel, its just a decent trade off for speed and fuel esp when in transit to area. 10 knots will still get you better range in TMO i've found, just use the use the button that gives you max range at speed.I usually if far from base cruise in at 15, then drop to 12 knots to conserve fuel but cover patrol area on a reasonable time table.

Bubblehead, which button is that? I'm in TMO2.2. Thanks!