Navy Preps Subs for First Female Officers

[Feuer Frei!]

For Ensign Peggy LeGrand, the biggest concern about serving on a submarine is not spending weeks at a time in tight quarters with an entirely male crew. What worries her is the scrutiny that comes with breaking one of the last gender barriers in the U.S. military."I have a feeling more people will be focused on us. Our mistakes and successes will be magnified more than they deserve," said LeGrand, a 25-year-old Naval Academy graduate from Amarillo, Texas.
LeGrand is among a small group of female officers who are training at sites including Groton, Conn., to join the elite submarine force beginning later this year. While the Navy says it is not treating them any differently from their male counterparts, officials have been working to prepare the submarine crews - and the sailors' wives - for one of the most dramatic changes in the 111-year history of the Navy's "silent service."


The initial class of 24 women will be divided among four submarines, where they will be outnumbered by men by a ratio of roughly 1 to 25. The enlisted ranks, which make up about 90 percent of a sub's 160-sailor crew, are not open to women although the Navy is exploring modifications to create separate bunks for men and women.
The female officers, many of them engineering graduates from Annapolis, are accustomed to being in the minority, and so far they say they hardly feel like outsiders. The nuclear power school that is part of their training, for example, has been open to women for years because the Navy in 1994 reversed a ban on females serving on its surface ships, including nuclear-powered vessels.
At the U.S. Navy's submarine school in Groton, where eight women were among dozens who recently completed the 10-week officer basic course, Ensign Kristin Lyles said the presence of the first class of females bound for submarine duty was not even remarked upon at this month's graduation ceremony.


A submarine group spokesman, Lt. Brian Wierzbicki, said the Navy would not facilitate photographs or interviews with the female submariners because it does not want to distract them from training or make them feel different from their male peers.
The female officers will report to their submarines starting in late November or early December. All of the vessels are guided-missile attack submarines or ballistic-missile submarines, which are relatively large by submarine standards. They are the USS Wyoming and USS Georgia, based in Kings Bay, Ga., and the USS Maine and USS Ohio, with their home port in Bangor, Wash.
On submarines with corridors barely wide enough for sailors to brush past one another, the six female officers on board will all share a stateroom. Their shifts will be divided so that women are assigned to each sub's two rotating crews. The lone bathroom for officers will have a reversible sign, letting men know that it's in use by women and vice versa.


Although Holland said commanders would be reluctant to have women on their subs, he said the Navy pulled off a more daunting challenge last year by outlawing smoking on submarines. The crews can adapt, he said.
The Navy reversed the ban on women in submarines in April 2010. In the fall, when officials announced the first subs selected to take on female officers, senior leaders held town hall meetings with the crews and their families to address their concerns. Wierzbicki, the Navy spokesman, said training has been provided to the crews and commanding officers to prepare them for the change.
Submarines had been the last class of military vessel off-limits to women. Navy officials say one lesson they learned from integrating surface ships is to make the transition gradually. The Navy wants to make sure it is aware of any potential issues that might arise, according to Lt. Cmdr. Jean Sullivan, chief of the naval personnel's office of women's policy.


The Navy is looking into bringing women aboard the smaller, Virginia-class attack subs, which would require reconfigurations to accommodate men and women together.
LeGrand said the diverse missions of the attack subs would be appealing, but the larger submarines are just fine with her.
As a semi-professional cyclist, she's hoping to serve on a sub large enough to bring aboard a stationary bike.


SOURCE

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

What worries her is the scrutiny that comes with breaking one of the last gender barriers in the U.S. military."I have a feeling more people will be focused on us. Our mistakes and successes will be magnified more than they deserve," said LeGrand, a 25-year-old Naval Academy graduate from Amarillo, Texas.

I would agree. This also happened when the military opened up EOD to women in the 1980's. Any mistake they made was amplified and offered as "proof" that women were unfit for EOD duty. Their successes were denigrated due to presumed "special treatment". It was frustrating and embarrassing to witness how they were treated.

It was no wonder many of them left, not because they could not hack the job, but because they could not hack the jerks.

I wish these women the best of luck and hope the submarine service treats them better than other units in the past.

[CaptainMattJ.]

first woman on a submarine?

I thought Frau already held that title

[Anthony W.]

Best of luck to her... But - hot DAYUM. If I were in a giant steel tube for 6 months at a time with a bunch of men, and a woman showed up... It'd either be heaven or hell.

Here's hoping she doesn't screw up - cause I know if she does she'll take hell more so than a man would.

No more good ol' boys clubs...

[Bubblehead1980]

terrible idea

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

terrible idea

Why?

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Why?

Let's reverse that.
What makes it a good idé?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

first woman on a submarine?

I thought Frau already held that title

Avon Lady...just to name one and there are more

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Let's reverse that.
What makes it a good idé?

Well, i won't go into the obvious reasons why it's a good idea for Men AND Women to serve together, side by side.
However, why should the job description discriminate against gender?
And really, that's what it comes down to. Can you do the job? Yes? Ah ok, you can do the job, and you are a woman? No problem!
I don't really see any reason to debate wether it is a good idea, or a bad idea for that matter. Unless of course the debater against has something against women in the work force.
Why else would someone debate this?

[Osmium Steele]

Integrating the officer corps first is smart. There is still a marked line of separation between officers and enlisted, even in the close confines of a boat, though not as marked a line as the Brits. Get crews accustomed to having women onboard.

The real test will be integrating enlisted men and women.

I mean, there is just not enough room in the fan room, and too many sharp edges.

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Well, i won't go into the obvious reasons why it's a good idea for Men AND Women to serve together, side by side.
However, why should the job description discriminate against gender?
And really, that's what it comes down to. Can you do the job? Yes? Ah ok, you can do the job, and you are a woman? No problem!
I don't really see any reason to debate wether it is a good idea, or a bad idea for that matter. Unless of course the debater against has something against women in the work force.
Why else would someone debate this?

There are too many things that begin as a "Right", and become transformed into a Requirement. The women of my family do not appreciate Feminists, who act as though they are representative of all women. They are very happy being women, and have no desire to prove what good men they can be.
Women hold the most important job in the world. Motherhood.

Women are special, and worhy of protection.
Corrupt politicians that send them out to fill body bags, and body parts bags, are not.

Unless of course the debater against has something against women in the work force.

Was that a good shot or a lucky hit?

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

There are too many things that begin as a "Right", and become transformed into a Requirement. The women of my family do not appreciate Feminists, who act as though they are representative of all women. They are very happy being women, and have no desire to prove what good men they can be.
Women hold the most important job in the world. Motherhood.

Women are special, and worhy of protection.
Corrupt politicians that send them out to fill body bags, and body parts bags, are not.

Indeed, i think there are some valid points made.
But in regards to Women who do not fit the mould of mother hood, don't want to fit in the mould of mother hood and/or have desires of ambition in the work force, and not for reasons of competing with men and to see who is superior in navigating a submarine through a live fx or parking it perfectly in a sub pen, then i say, let those women have the freedom to do as they want.
And they are fully aware that they will be treated as equal in the job, with the same privilidges. That is what they ask for, that they are treated the equal.
In fact, encourage this, support and learn, for that will go a long way towards killing this inequality BS that still, to this day exists all over the world.
It is high time that the Chauvinists and egotistical A-Holes of the global work forces wake up and smell the (roses) Scent of a Woman!

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

They are very happy being women, and have no desire to prove what good men they can be.
Women hold the most important job in the world. Motherhood.

Women are special, and worhy of protection.

While I share your chivalrous attitude toward women, and understand from whence it comes, you want to be careful with the above argument.

It is the same argument used by muslim men the world over to explain why women must remain covered or indoors, uneducated and pregnant. What they, and their prophet call protection, we call repression.

Women make great pilots in the fly-by-wire era, even combat pilots, though I'm not sure the U.S. has had a female pilot enter a dogfight as yet. This doesn't preclude motherhood. The two are not neccesarily mutually exclusive.

Women have been allowed on surface ships for 20+ years now. American submarine sailors are generally better educated, more tolerant, and gentler than your average sailor. The various jobs on a boat do not require the increased physicality of the male of the species. Not even torpedoman or A-gang. This experiment will probably work just fine.

Besides, my eleven year old is psyched that she can follow in daddy's footsteps. (until she discovers boys, that is )

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Was that a good shot or a lucky hit?

Luck does not exist. So it has to be a good shot
But, i fear that it won't be fatal.