An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

Feuer Frei! · 07-20-11, 08:27 AM

This may cause some controversy amongst the gun owners here but, a interesting read nonetheless.
I won't copy pasta anything as it is too much, it's a bout a guy who has documented firearm stopping power over a 10 year period, gleaming info and data from gun fights, police records, attended autopsies, newspapers, internet and magazines and collates them into easy to read format:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Skybird · 07-20-11, 10:57 AM

Quote:

The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately...even the lowly .22s. I've stopped worrying about trying to find the "ultimate" bullet. There isn't one. And I've stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important.

Outside a military and police context, for civilian users just wanting to be able to defend themselves, these are words of wisdom that should help to keep some of the obsessions you sometimes see in firearms fans in check.

BTW, if you can handle the weapon and are trained to precisely aim, even an air pistol is lethal.

Some of the discussions of firearm lovers trying to defend why they need this special round and that superweapon, remind me of people seriously thinking that while they live in a villa inside town and only go on safari into urban city centres and shopping m alls, they really need a big, PS-XL equipped all-terrain off-road vehicle toi be "safe" - just in case.

Cases that when you ask them they even cannot illustrate in descriptions.

Cars and firerarms - and many male people immediately start to think with their eleventh finger, it seems.

Oh, and the barbecue grill, of course. Raw meat and fire. The more expensive, the better.

Consumers just can't stand a joke. That's why the industry pulls their legs all day long.

Sailor Steve · 07-20-11, 11:39 AM

There is wisdom in the saying "The best gun for the job is the one you have with you." On the other hand, it was observed cases of the older .44 vs the .36 that led to the development of the M1911, so nothing is actually final. There are cases of someone being hit in the head with a .45, being knocked down, then jumping up and running away, and a .22 in the heart (or major artery) will certainly kill quickly, and a .22 in the brain will not go through but rattle around inside causing potentially much more damage.

I agree with his conclusion. What's best is what you're comfortable with. A firearms expert once wrote "A .22 derringer in the pocket is far better than a .44 at home in a drawer."

On the other hand a 40mm AA round will probably do a lot more damage than any of them.

Osmium Steele · 07-20-11, 11:50 AM

Bookmarked, copied, printed and posted for my department.

Considering framing the thing!!!

Thanks for posting this.

MaddogK · 07-20-11, 01:02 PM

Quote:

The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers.

Apparently the author wasn't looking hard enough:
The .357 had the lowest 'failure to incapacitate' and one of the lowest number of rounds needed to incapacitate.

Putting a .32 and a 44mag into the mix are red herrings- 25 and 24 (respectively) people shot.

Shotguns (unsurprisingly) had the highest fatality rate.

The calibers issued to LE had higher % actually incapacitated by one shot (did training have anything to do with it ?)

Im really not surprised by the .45's numbers as it really wasn't meant to instantly kill an enemy, it was meant to incapacitate an enemy (and share the same ammo as the Army issued SMG at the time (Thompson)).

However his conclusion is correct :

Quote:

No matter which gun you choose, pick one that is reliable and train with it until you can get fast accurate hits. Nothing beyond that really matters!

I'd choose to carry my Makarov 9mm over my 1911 any day because it's easier to hit what I'm aiming at.

Sailor Steve · 07-20-11, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaddogK

(and share the same ammo as the Army issued SMG at the time (Thompson)

The Thompson submachine gun first entered production in 1921, ten years after the Colt pistol.

antikristuseke · 07-20-11, 05:27 PM

Well whoda thunk it, all modern pistol calibers still in use actually work.

Growler · 07-21-11, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Well whoda thunk it, all modern pistol calibers still in use actually work.

Hell, .69 musket balls still work, too.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 07-21-11, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Growler

Hell, .69 musket balls still work, too.

Home defence:
BANG! Pardon me Mr. Intruder. I have to reload... just a moment.

MaddogK · 07-21-11, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The Thompson submachine gun first entered production in 1921, ten years after the Colt pistol.

Thanks for the correction, an old army buddy gave me that info years ago and I never had a need to confirm it's validity.

Growler · 07-21-11, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Home defence:
BANG! Pardon me Mr. Intruder. I have to reload... just a moment.

LOL... stick a bayonet on the end of that thing, and it'll take an intruder a half-hour to reach you.

07-20-11, 08:27 AM	#1
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power This may cause some controversy amongst the gun owners here but, a interesting read nonetheless. I won't copy pasta anything as it is too much, it's a bout a guy who has documented firearm stopping power over a 10 year period, gleaming info and data from gun fights, police records, attended autopsies, newspapers, internet and magazines and collates them into easy to read format: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866 __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

07-20-11, 11:39 AM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	There is wisdom in the saying "The best gun for the job is the one you have with you." On the other hand, it was observed cases of the older .44 vs the .36 that led to the development of the M1911, so nothing is actually final. There are cases of someone being hit in the head with a .45, being knocked down, then jumping up and running away, and a .22 in the heart (or major artery) will certainly kill quickly, and a .22 in the brain will not go through but rattle around inside causing potentially much more damage. I agree with his conclusion. What's best is what you're comfortable with. A firearms expert once wrote "A .22 derringer in the pocket is far better than a .44 at home in a drawer." On the other hand a 40mm AA round will probably do a lot more damage than any of them. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-20-11, 11:50 AM	#4
Osmium Steele Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upper midwest USA Posts: 1,101 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Bookmarked, copied, printed and posted for my department. Considering framing the thing!!! Thanks for posting this. __________________ In the month of July of the year 1348, between the feasts of St. Benedict and of St. Swithin, a strange thing came upon England... My U297 build thread

07-20-11, 05:27 PM	#7
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well whoda thunk it, all modern pistol calibers still in use actually work.