Republicans Believe Illegal Immigration 'Should be a Crime'

[Feuer Frei!]

Heaven's forbid that a crime should be called a crime!

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D.-Fla.), chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee, denounced Republicans last week for believing illegal immigration “should in fact be a crime.” “I think the president was clearly articulating that his position--the Democratic position--is that we need comprehensive immigration reform,” said Wasserman Schultz at a Christian Science Monitor Breakfast on May 26.
“We have 12 million undocumented immigrants in this country that are part of the backbone of our economy and this is not only a reality but a necessity," she said. "And that it would be harmful--the Republican solution that I’ve seen in the last three years is that we should just pack them all up and ship them back to their own countries and that in fact it should be a crime and we should arrested them all.”

The comment has drawn attention among conservative commentators and bloggers. During the comments, the chairwoman referred to legislation in 2006 by Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) that would increase border enforcement and make illegal immigration a criminal offense instead of a civil matter.
However, the Senate bill immunized illegal aliens from being prosecuted for document fraud, a felony, and did not stop the practice of allowing illegal aliens eventually granted legal residency to go back and claim credit with the Social Security Administration for work they did as an illegal. These provisions were in sections 601 and 614 of the McCain-Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform bill.


The new chairwoman has made a number of attention grabbing comments. In an April 6 interview on MSNBC, Wasserman Shultz voiced her opposition to the proposal by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) to reduce the deficit by $6 trillion in 10 years.
Last week she said on MSNBC, that the passage of the health care law has strengthened Medicare.
“In fact, we added 12 years of solvency to Medicare and ensure that it would be better for senior,” she said on Andrea Mitchell Reports on May 25.


SOURCE

[mookiemookie]

I'm really conflicted about the whole situation. I used to be in the hardcore "kick them all out" camp. I've done a bit of research and reading and found that the economics of illegal immigration make that position shaky. In a pure supply and demand sense, imagine if you took away a large amount of the supply of labor - the remaining labor would become more expensive. While it's true we have a lot of people out of work in this country, a lot of the people out of work are highly skilled and highly educated and they would not be a one for one replacement of the supply of cheap illegal labor. Cheap labor costs keep the cost of many goods and services in this country low. If the cost of labor inputs increase, firms will be forced to increase the cost to the end consumer.

As I said, I'm not sure how I feel about it. If you bring the illegals into the system and move away from under the table pay, then we've just increased our tax base substantially. That's got to be a positive.

I think we need a two pronged approach - something that both political parties seem to lack. We should identify the places where our immigration laws need streamlining in addition to stricter enforcement of immigration laws and border control. Reliance on cheap labor is a reality in this country, and any solution needs to recognize that.

It's late, I'm sleepy and rambling. Carry on.

[CCIP]

I don't think this is a question of belief at all.

The bigger issue is how you deal with it, whether you choose to prosecute it, or whether there is amnesty to be considered for those who previously did it. But debating whether or not it's a crime is just stupid and distracts from the main issues at hand. Cause "Illegal non-crime" or "Legal crime" are kind of oxymorons...

[Sailor Steve]

Argue about the technicalities all you like (and I'm not saying we shouldn't), but the point here is that we have someone in a position of power who takes others to task because they wrongly believe that something "illegal" should be a crime? Maybe she needs a dictionary for her birthday.

[Penguin]

@Steve: there are also infractions and felonies

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I'm really conflicted about the whole situation. I used to be in the hardcore "kick them all out" camp. I've done a bit of research and reading and found that the economics of illegal immigration make that position shaky. In a pure supply and demand sense, imagine if you took away a large amount of the supply of labor - the remaining labor would become more expensive. While it's true we have a lot of people out of work in this country, a lot of the people out of work are highly skilled and highly educated and they would not be a one for one replacement of the supply of cheap illegal labor. Cheap labor costs keep the cost of many goods and services in this country low. If the cost of labor inputs increase, firms will be forced to increase the cost to the end consumer.

Well, if there is a demand for cheap, unskilled labour, why not hand out work visas or raise the number of legal immigrants, if they are really the "backbone of the economy" like the article states. Don't wonder however if you folks will encounter some problems if you let masses of uneducated and unskilled people into your country.
Germany did this in the 60s/70s and many problems we have today root from there. One former chancellor stated some years ago, that this encouragement of unskilled immigration was to keep domestic wages low - and, in hindsight, regards this as a mistake.

The demand is there for cheaper than cheap labour. People who are too cheap to pay normal wages have this demand - the demand of the consumer is always to have a product to the lowest costs.
However it is shortsighted if you only look at the price of products or services. Indirectly you pay higher taxes for federal/state services that these people use, for people who get umemployed because they can't compete with this cheap labour and anopther interesting aspect, that Armistead mentioned, are also enviromental costs. He mentioned it in an example, that illegal workers often dump their waste from their work just into the nature - it's the same here.
As I see it is that by all this this the taxpayer subsides these employers who are too cheap to pay minimum wage and taxes - and it is a slap in the face of the millions of legal immigrants who often went through considerable efforts to immigrate into the country.

@Steve: there are also infractions and felonies

And crimes against nature

[Betonov]

How can a workforce that doesn't pay taxes and it's employer doesn't pay taxes be a backbone of the economy. OK, sure, more profit more sales tax, but still. More work visas. We built our highways on work visas

[JU_88]

Well, to be honest when caught, most illegal imigrants are treated like criminals already, they usually get locked up until arraangements can be made to deported them back from where they came.

So what is the advantage of prosecuting them in the country in which they illegally tried to enter? if you still deport them anyway, why would they really care that they now have a crimminal record in that country?
If they decide to come back, again it will be illegally and under the radar.

I fail to see how this is going to make any impact on the issue what so ever.

[JU_88]

oops double post

So what is the advantage of prosecuting them in the country in which they illegally tried to enter?

in reality it is counter productive, if you look back at the arizona immigration debate their proposals on prosecution were just about the dumbest idea anyone could imagine

[tater]

Of course it should be a crime. Any illegal seeking any services paid for by me should be arrested and deported. Any illegal in ANY interaction with the government should be deported immediately. Straight from where they are grabbed, too. All assets confiscated, etc. Sent home with the clothes on their back.

I'm all for grossly increasing LEGAL immigration, but being illegal should be disqualifying for future legal status. If you sneaked in, and quotas are raised, you should have to sneak OUT, then come back in legally. Any government record of their existence at all here before trying to get in legally should be disqualifying.

We NEED the labor, actually, and the situation will require more, not less immigration moving forward. Still, it needs to be the way we want it to be. Legal, orderly, and not letting in people we don't want to let in.

Also, the type of people who are illegal are also not net contributors to taxes. Only the top tier of taxpayers even pull their own weight, everyone else is a drag on the system (entitlements). The US should consider attracting more of the high end (the ability to buy a place at the front of the line via investment in the US—start a business with several hundred grand or more, and buy a house, and you can enter immediately).

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by tater

Of course it should be a crime. Any illegal seeking any services paid for by me should be arrested and deported. Any illegal in ANY interaction with the government should be deported immediately. Straight from where they are grabbed, too. All assets confiscated, etc. Sent home with the clothes on their back.

I'm all for grossly increasing LEGAL immigration, but being illegal should be disqualifying for future legal status. If you sneaked in, and quotas are raised, you should have to sneak OUT, then come back in legally. Any government record of their existence at all here before trying to get in legally should be disqualifying.

We NEED the labor, actually, and the situation will require more, not less immigration moving forward. Still, it needs to be the way we want it to be. Legal, orderly, and not letting in people we don't want to let in.

Also, the type of people who are illegal are also not net contributors to taxes. Only the top tier of taxpayers even pull their own weight, everyone else is a drag on the system (entitlements). The US should consider attracting more of the high end (the ability to buy a place at the front of the line via investment in the US—start a business with several hundred grand or more, and buy a house, and you can enter immediately).

Of course it should be a crime.

But what sort of crime, that is the question.

Any illegal seeking any services paid for by me should be arrested and deported.

By who?

Any illegal in ANY interaction with the government should be deported immediately.

How?

Straight from where they are grabbed, too.

Really????? How does that work exactly?

All assets confiscated, etc.

Errrrr...how do you do that if you are deporting them immediatly straight from where they are grabbed?
Tater takes a "tough" knee jerk line on illegal immigration and creates for himself unworkable proposals bigger government and even more government expense funded by the taxpayers who according to him are nearly all on a free ride anyway

[tater]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But what sort of crime, that is the question.

It is already supposed to get you deported or charged now, it's just not enforced enough (BTW, the whole point of the OP article is the absurdity of NOT thiking they are criminals).

By who?

In the US, INS, though state laws could allow city/state employees to do so. This is the benefit of the plans like Rhode Island (which is nearly identical to AZ, and has been for years, but they are "blue" so the press didn't notice).

How?

There are many cases where the nationality of the person can be established if the authorities are empowered (and required) to do so. Show up in the ER and you are not paying for the care? Check out who you are. They damn well do to bill everyone else (the billing people know). Here in NM they have a driver's license as KNOWN illegals. Any traffic accident (MANY involve illegals here in NM) should check. Any police interaction at all, ditto. Show license, if it is for illegals, deport them—better to deport the when they ask for license, but the democrats what them to VOTE here (and they do, illegally, it's proven now). You'll say, "how can the dog catcher, or the water utility, or hospital staff report illegals, it's not their job!" Guess what, docs are already required by law to report any injury that might be child abuse, for example. MIGHT be. They are not law enforcement, but they are required by law to do so. Guess what, my wife is just as expert in knowing an illegal when she sees one (yeah, there is a lot of cross over with legal mexicans, but right now most immigrants from mexico are illegal by far so it's a safe bet that a mexican is illegal (not a mexican-american, a mexican. Anyone here in the border states knows what I'm talking about even if someone in ireland doesn't—it's like a european spotting a US tourist on the street there, or us spotting a euro tourist (the ghey jeans are always a good sign).) Would you catch all? No, but you'd catch a lot.

Oh, and interstate (and international) commerce and banking laws might be used to monitor sending money abroad. Much of the income earned by illegals is in fact sent back home. Mexico supports illegal immigration because it brings billions of US$ to Mexico (money wired home). Anyone wiring money abroad should have a check on status. Have a status check to open a bank account, or to cash a check for anyone without an account (legit tourists will have passports and will leave a paper trail).

Really????? How does that work exactly?

Huh? Police pull over car for not being registered or whatever. They check status, and Juanita is illegal. She goes to holding, then off to Mexico. If she was guilty of any other crime, or had a warrant this would be no different, pulled over, or however caught, and taken to jail. The cops don't bring perps home to grab an overnight bag. They can run a check (and search her) for bank account information, etc tied to her name/address, and that money all gets taken, too.

Errrrr...how do you do that if you are deporting them immediatly straight from where they are grabbed?
Tater takes a "tough" knee jerk line on illegal immigration and creates for himself unworkable proposals bigger government and even more government expense funded by the taxpayers who according to him are nearly all on a free ride anyway

Many would be grabbed in cars. Impound car, send criminal (illegal) home. Yard has weeds, and city come knocking (happens all the time here). Worker suspects illegals and is required to call authorities who check. Indeed illegals. They get rounded up, and contents of house removed (unless one person there is legal, then they take possession of all I guess (though charging them with aiding a criminal activity makes sense (same for anyone employing said illegals, mind you).

Your argument is what? That since illegals are a net drain, spending any more to arrest them puts us farther in the hole so we should ignore them?

Hiring illegals should be fiscally dangerous enough that no one wants to do it.

Being illegal should be unpleasant enough that no one would want to.

Legal immigration should be increased, but anyone here illegally already should be disqualified if known (so get out, then come back in properly, in a line, like civilized people).

[tater]

It's important to note that many places in the US have democrat leaders who have made it ILLEGAL for government employees to report suspected illegals. Santa Fe, NM, for example. So a fire marshall can cite an apartment for being overcrowded (10 illegals living in a 2 bedroom apt, say), but is not allowed to call INS on them.

Same with the police. It's ridiculous.

It's always funny when a non-american wants us to have less strict laws than everywhere else on earth for our borders. Frankly, I don't care even a little what the opinion of anyone not a US citizen is regarding US immigration law. It carries zero weight.