Demjanjuk Convicted for Role in Nazi Death Camp

[mookiemookie]

John Demjanjuk, a retired American autoworker embroiled in three decades of legal proceedings over his Nazi-era past, was freed pending an appeal on Thursday after a court sentenced him to five years in prison for helping to force some 28,000 Jews to their deaths during the Holocaust.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/wo...nazi.html?_r=1

I'm not sure I agree with this. After 66 years and no real hard evidence against the guy other than he worked at the camp, how do you pin that on him? You could use that line of reasoning to indict anyone who did any sort of work at all in Nazi Germany. The guy is 91 years old. Any sort of jail time is a death sentence. What's really the point here?

How is this guy different than the Operation Paperclip scientists who developed the V2s that killed thousands of English people? There were no trials for them.

[MH]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

How is this guy different than the Operation Paperclip scientists who developed the V2s that killed thousands of English people? There were no trials for them.

Is this philosophical question or for real?
Death Camp was a pionering startup company then?
Actually they where quite human gazing people saying its just a shower.
People got wounded in the war spilling their guts before dying.
So killing UBL was moral or not.

[razark]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

How is this guy different than the Operation Paperclip scientists who developed the V2s that killed thousands of English people?

We don't have anything useful for him to do.

[Penguin]

May he rot in prison - I shed no tear for him. As I said before: his victims never had the chance to reach an old age in freedom.

Btw: the oldest man who was killed in Sobibor, while Demjanjuk was there, was 90 years old...

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by MH

Is this philosophical question or for real?
Death Camp was a pionering startup company then?

I was making the point that we treat ex-Nazis with blood on their hands differently.

[the_tyrant]

the guys who created the v2 simply created a weapon.
but the death camp operators used poison gas created by others to murder

[razark]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

the guys who created the v2 simply created a weapon.
but the death camp operators used poison gas created by others to murder

That implies that the folks building the weapons had no idea they'd be used, or what they'd be used for.

"'Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department', says Wernher von Braun."
-Tom Lehrer

[MH]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I was making the point that we treat ex-Nazis with blood on their hands differently.

I was making a point that following your thinking we would have to hang every Wehrmacht solider or just forget that anything happened.
I have no sympathy for Von Braun as evidence showed he was aware of slave labor in Penemunde and was member of nazi party.
I can view him as a victim of circumstances and opportunist.
From what i red about him he was really a dreamer who wanted to put man in space(and did it)

Maybe he should had been trailed but then every factory owner in Germany.


There is still a common sense.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by razark

That implies that the folks building the weapons had no idea they'd be used, or what they'd be used for.

so are you saying the Manhattan project people should be convicted too?

the countries were at war, creating weapons of war for your country is expected during a time of war

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

the guys who created the v2 simply created a weapon.
but the death camp operators used poison gas created by others to murder

Have you really thought this to the end?

The makers of the V2 created it for serving Hitler. The poison gas was created for Hitler. The war and the KZs alike were run and maintained for serving Hitler. Both groups of people are guilty.

On Demjanjuk and mookie'S implication that because he is old he shall not be held responsible for his deeds he was found guilty of. The survivors of that horror have never had the option to live without the horrific experiences they had to go through. They all have gotten a life sentence. Not even mentioning the dead. Why should somebody who was found guilty to have helped the horror, getting anything less?

He is old, okay. But so are the surviving victims. If they had to grow old in victimhood, then he can bear penalty and responsibility while being old. What that means for him now, does not compare to what the horror has meant for the victims, suviors and killed ones alike.

BTW, he currently is free. He was released immediately after the sentence. A slap into the face of the victims.

[razark]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

so are you saying the Manhattan project people should be convicted too?

Are you saying the people that dropped, or made the decision to drop, the bomb should be convicted?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

so are you saying the Manhattan project people should be convicted too?

the countries were at war, creating weapons of war for your country is expected during a time of war

Just that Hitler and Roosevelt were slightly different in their values and agendas.

You get judged by the politics you help by your own deeds.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Skybird

On Demjanjuk and mookie'S implication that because he is old he shall not be held responsible for his deeds he was found guilty of. The survivors of that horror have never had the option to live without the horrific experiences they had to go through. They all have gotten a life sentence. Not even mentioning the dead. Why should somebody who was found guilty to have helped the horror, getting anything less?

Not implying that he should get off free only because of his age. I was saying that if you're going to sentence someone to a jail term that will likely kill them - essentially sentencing them to death - then you had better have something that shows he was directly responsible for deaths at the camp...something better than flimsy 66 year old evidence of dubious origin, anyways.

[MH]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Not implying that he should get off free only because of his age. I was saying that if you're going to sentence someone to a jail term that will likely kill them - essentially sentencing them to death - then you had better have something that shows he was directly responsible for deaths at the camp...something better than flimsy 66 year old evidence of dubious origin, anyways.

For me the fact that he volunteered to serve at death camp to save his arse from being POW is enough.
He was supporting systematic killing of whole peoples
They had been brought in animal carriages and put to death.
So really w#$#$%
.....at list he had a trail.

[Penguin]

dubious evidence? As they could not prove that he killed someone himself, the whole trial was about assistance to murder in 28060 cases.

In the absence of specific evidence against him, the case against Mr. Demjanjuk rested on the prosecution’s charge that anyone working at the camp at the time he was there shared responsibility for its function of systematic murder.

And this is what the prosecution did prove in the trial.

And no, a prison sentence for an old man is not a death penalty. He could likely die in prison but he won't be killed by the prison - but by his age.
Prison is not worse than an old people's home for him - 3 meals a day, no labour, medical assistance, visitation hours, etc.
He already survided 2 years in custody - longer than most people in Sobibor.