Fun in the Fog? A Bone Pleeze

[Dogfish40]

Anybody got some tips for aproaching the enemy in heavy fog. Here's my problem; First off, I'm not going to cut the fog down because it's pretty realistic, this was a problem that Subs faced and I'm going to keep "volumetric fog" checked.
So... I'm approching an unknown merchant in heavy fog; by the time I can see his masts, the ship is only 7 or 800 yrds off the beam. He may be armed, he may be friendly (some of those Dutch merchants look a bit like the Marus) but I have to know before I send him down. Do I, a) let him pass to get a recognition and then give him a shot up the rear? b) Sink him outright and hope he's the enemy? c) or let him go? This fog isn't even the worst I've found, and the periscope is even worse, to see the ship I need to be on the bridge. If I can see the flags I am close enough to be rammed or shot up. The fog makes getting Torpedo Data extremly hard over 500 yrds. I've sunk two ships now with the deck gun, but until I got the message "enemy ship sunk" I wasn't sure if I was sinking a friendly. (I'm trying not to cheat and take a peek if you know what I mean)
How 'bout some Fog feedback from some of you Skippers out there!
Thanx
D40

[Thrair]

Depends on the mods you're running.

If stock, get close and use the DG. A lot of merchants aren't even armed in stock, and those that are are crappy shots. Further more, it's quite possible to get under the guns, so to speak. You can get close enough that the gunners can't shoot, as the shots would go through her hull.


If running a modset with more robust AI, I'd get ahead of them and let them pass by while you're submerged at periscope. Focus on getting a good ID.

After that, you can do one of two things:
A) Shadow them and wait out the fog
B) Take a guess at their course and fire a potshot spread while hoping for the best.

[Daniel Prates]

I once raided Quingdao, a harbor inside the yellow sea. I was there to deliver an agent, and after droping him off, i decided to check out the docks.

No subchasers, no DDs, nothing. I approached underwater and I rose periscope around 10pm, to take advantage of darkness.

Fog all around. I could not see a thing! According to the map, I came as close as 1000 meters to the dock and there was nothing to be seen.

Since fog works both ways, I emerged. Radar signals indicated 6 ships, all stationary. Perfect targets. But how could I see them? I slowly came as close as 500 meters and still could not see a thing. Since this is close to arming distance for the torpedoes, it was useless to go any closer.

I though of a way to shoot them, which might work for stationary targets. It is possible to get their bearings from radar, do the math with your own course, and set the torpedo gyroangle with that. When zooming down in the map, a compass appears which helps you trim those angles with finesse. If you are not too far away that could work fine. Of course, you must be lucky to have the ship in a 90 degrees angle in front ot you, because if it is facing you, the smallest angle error will imply a miss.

I did no try that tough, since there was no way to know if I would be spending torpedoes on useless targets as auxiliary subchasers or gunboats or such. So what i did was to wait another day submerged until the fog eventually dissipated and I could raise hell more properly!

[surf_ten]

Prior to having SD radar, I tried using the hydrohunt method I learned and used when I played sh III. I tracked the target, determined range, speed and course and set my intercept course all the while having zero visibility due to the fog. Even under 500 yds I still could not make visual contact so I cheated and used external view to verify the ships nationality (Japanese Merchant confirmed). Thinking I outwitted the weather conditons I let loose my torps and recieved the very satisfactory explosions, however despite knowing I just sunk the ship I was not given the credit for the sinking.

Perhaps the computer crew could not confirm the sinking due to not having a visual contact. This was definately different from SH III becuase I used the hydrohunt method numerous times due to long stretches of craptacular weather and recieved credit despite not having visual confirmation. I guess in reality this was quite a reckless action on my part since I could have ending up sinking a friendly.

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

I once raided Quingdao, a harbor inside the yellow sea. I was there to deliver an agent, and after droping him off, i decided to check out the docks.

No subchasers, no DDs, nothing. I approached underwater and I rose periscope around 10pm, to take advantage of darkness.

Fog all around. I could not see a thing! According to the map, I came as close as 1000 meters to the dock and there was nothing to be seen.

Since fog works both ways, I emerged. Radar signals indicated 6 ships, all stationary. Perfect targets. But how could I see them? I slowly came as close as 500 meters and still could not see a thing. Since this is close to arming distance for the torpedoes, it was useless to go any closer.

I though of a way to shoot them, which might work for stationary targets. It is possible to get their bearings from radar, do the math with your own course, and set the torpedo gyroangle with that. When zooming down in the map, a compass appears which helps you trim those angles with finesse. If you are not too far away that could work fine. Of course, you must be lucky to have the ship in a 90 degrees angle in front ot you, because if it is facing you, the smallest angle error will imply a miss.

I did no try that tough, since there was no way to know if I would be spending torpedoes on useless targets as auxiliary subchasers or gunboats or such. So what i did was to wait another day submerged until the fog eventually dissipated and I could raise hell more properly!

I can't wait to get the SJ. I've still got several months before it becomes available and even then I might have to transfer. I mean, in one way I love it, the thick fog. I'm really trying to be a good little skipper and not peek because that increases the tension but, on the other hand I'm risking my crew, my boat and I want to use any methods that would give me the upper hand as any skipper would do in a situation such as this. The fog has been with us for days. I've not seen this before. I've had the long rainy, stormy patrols but this is creepy, like a Roger Corman flick. So, the best I have been able to do is use the deck gun, and that's me on the gun.

Originally Posted by surf_ten

Prior to having SD radar, I tried using the hydrohunt method I learned and used when I played sh III. I tracked the target, determined range, speed and course and set my intercept course all the while having zero visibility due to the fog. Even under 500 yds I still could not make visual contact so I cheated and used external view to verify the ships nationality (Japanese Merchant confirmed). Thinking I outwitted the weather conditons I let loose my torps and recieved the very satisfactory explosions, however despite knowing I just sunk the ship I was not given the credit for the sinking.

Perhaps the computer crew could not confirm the sinking due to not having a visual contact. This was definately different from SH III becuase I used the hydrohunt method numerous times due to long stretches of craptacular weather and recieved credit despite not having visual confirmation. I guess in reality this was quite a reckless action on my part since I could have ending up sinking a friendly.

I have credit on the log for sinking two enemy ships (different days) and it says enemy! I hope that it stays that way when I get back to base because on the nav-map the sunk icon is grey instead of red or blue. As I said, I used the deck gun, and since there was no confirmation except my visual checking against a chart, I didn't see a flag. I was relieved after the sinking to get the "enemy ship" on the log. I'm a bit over-cautious to get too close submerged in the fog. One mistake and I'm getting rammed. If they detect me, I've had merchants change course and half the time it's right at the boat. If this keeps up though, I might just go ahead and peek. Oh well... we'll see!
D40

[Char]

Yeah fog is a toughie to hunt in,weather you have radar or not.You still gotta make visual contact with em to get credit for the kill,meaning you have to be point blank to detect them.However,the fog also gives you the ability to run on the surface while moving into position to attack a convoy.It also can lead to some ROFL encounters.

One time in heavy fog I was closing in on two Warship contacts moving closer to me.So I set up for a visual I.D by letting them pass within 300 yards of me while at periscope depth.I Had Free Camera on,but I decided not to use it here,of reasons unknown to me.Well at 300 yards,I couldn't see it so I surfaced and took my chances there.Well what I had failed to notice was that in the time it took me to move into a surface I.D position,the fog had lifted slightly.I surfaced within 400 yards of Two Nagato Class Battleships!

Didn't know weather to laugh or Rage hard.I raged then,but now I find it funny as hell!

[GreyBeard]

On the other hand, thick fog helps you sneak in and back out of a harbor on the surface if you have to do a spy/commando insertion. The same is true of a photo recon, but then you have to get a lot closer to the target you're photographing. Snuck into Hiroshima last night for a photo recon, overcast, rain and fog. It was a real nail biter. Went the whole distance in and out surfaced. Only submerged in harbor.

[Daniel Prates]

Radar does make things easier when closing in on ports, since although challenging as the game may be, its a fact that some things are predictable. For instance, as there may be escorts or subchasers or gunboats on dock, they WILL NOT depart to chase you. They might (95% of the times) star shooting at you. So if there is fog and you start attacking, there is an almost 100% chance that you can do that surfaced and with little or no risk of being attacked. Also, since nobody can see you, I think nobody is going to radio anybody that you're there.

[Armistead]

Fog and storms are the best time to attack, you don't have to see ships or get close. Just use radar or sonar and get a bearing, get within about 1000 yards and shoot down the bearing. You can use the tab to ask sonar to report closest contact and just shoot down that bearing. Once you hit the ship a few times it usually catches on fire giving you easy aiming points.

When the enemy gets radar you have to be careful, they'll chase you, but proper timing, running decks awash, using merchants to block you can run them in circles sinking away.

If you have a DG and a 40, you can take out 15 ship convoys without a problem.

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Fog and storms are the best time to attack, you don't have to see ships or get close. Just use radar or sonar and get a bearing, get within about 1000 yards and shoot down the bearing. You can use the tab to ask sonar to report closest contact and just shoot down that bearing. Once you hit the ship a few times it usually catches on fire giving you easy aiming points.

When the enemy gets radar you have to be careful, they'll chase you, but proper timing, running decks awash, using merchants to block you can run them in circles sinking away.

If you have a DG and a 40, you can take out 15 ship convoys without a problem.

Basically, that is pretty much what happened. The deck gun became the weapon of choice. However, I didn't trust the sonar as much as my eyes which I will not make that mistake again. The problem with the sonar is not direction of course but range. Until 500 yrds I couldn't make out the masts, then all of a sudden the ship was right there! By then I couldn't miss. Fortunately he wasn't armed or it wouldv'e been even more interesting. I guess we did it right by using the deck gun, but I still was sweating the confirmation that it was an enemy ship.

[Platapus]

I think the idea, already posted, of shadowing the ship until you get a break in the fog is probably the best and most realistic option.

Good luck with it.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Basically, that is pretty much what happened. The deck gun became the weapon of choice. However, I didn't trust the sonar as much as my eyes which I will not make that mistake again. The problem with the sonar is not direction of course but range. Until 500 yrds I couldn't make out the masts, then all of a sudden the ship was right there! By then I couldn't miss. Fortunately he wasn't armed or it wouldv'e been even more interesting. I guess we did it right by using the deck gun, but I still was sweating the confirmation that it was an enemy ship.

Just look at your sonar lines and radar, get his course and just run beside him or behind them, look for the wake. I like about 1000 yards or less, can't miss. You're not trying to see the ship, just shoot down the bearing. If you get in a convoy just sneak in from behind and get in between two columns and match your speed to them.

The real fun is in a convoy of about 40 ships with escorts that have radar, I zig through the ships like a mad man, just gotta be careful, ships zig and mill around and you have to watch radar a lot.

Waiting on fog to clear...bad idea, could take over a day, if you time compress the fog may clear leaving you exposed on the surface. Course you can always dive and clear the weather using control N at the cam, but that ain't no fun.

It's really easy to do once you figure it out. Even better when it's almost dark or dark in a storm, lights come on giving you easy aiming points...Even in this shot they can't see me, but their lights give them away.

[Thrair]

I'll defer to Armistead on this. If he says waiting's a bad idea, he's probably right.

I suppose I tend to be more cautious than most. Perhaps that's a weakness of mine I need to eliminate in order to start racking up the more obscene amounts of tonnage the vets of this game can.


On a side note, I doubt this'd work well in real life. I imagine the report of your deck gun would be highly visible, even through fog.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Thrair

I'll defer to Armistead on this. If he says waiting's a bad idea, he's probably right.

I suppose I tend to be more cautious than most. Perhaps that's a weakness of mine I need to eliminate in order to start racking up the more obscene amounts of tonnage the vets of this game can.


On a side note, I doubt this'd work well in real life. I imagine the report of your deck gun would be highly visible, even through fog.

Fact is deckguns were seldomed used on merchant ships anyway and only read one account in a storm. Fog retains light blast fairly well, so would be easily spotted, but we certainly used torps in bad non visual weather.

The game plays right so to speak, your crew won't shoot without a visual, nor will the enemy, but in many ways we can take advantage of the AI ourselves.

It's not that waiting is a bad idea if it's your style, but the weather changes quickly. Main thing is if your gonna pace and wait for better weather, do it from distance. I've used TC in bad weather in close just to get to another ship and why ploting on the map next thing I know I'm being blasted, come back to the sub and it's blue skies surrounded by ships. The game often changes weather in seconds.

Another thing that helps is the longer ship wake mod, you can then follow the wake from further distance.

[Daniel Prates]

In any case, lighting up the targed with gunfire and then deciding what to do seems to be the first step.