Are we really on the surface

Reverie · 05-02-11, 03:56 PM

Depth changes and "taking 'er up" are tactically achieved through the use of the dive planes; the sole purpose is conserving a vital resource, the compressed air of a submersible in the theatre of war.

However, through a sudden attachment to patrols ala Type II, I have been curious as to the ballast of a boat particularly as there is no meter indication similar to the Expanded Aces of the Deep. The Upgrade to realising the amount of water/ballast in the boat was beneficent to a commanders survival efforts. This apparently is a shortcoming to the 3rd Edition of Silent Hunter, or I am ignorant of the magic button to press and exploit this expounder.

The logical response is to prompt for specifics:
In what condition is your boat?
In what "physical" condition is your crew functioning?
How long have you been submerged?
Can you ascertain the Sea State?
Post the Era and/or time of year/season.
Declare mechanical improvements/performance enhancements.

Persisting in a Campaign valiantly lodged within a "canoe" (q.v.) has guaranteed a modicum of regale, offset by prodding for System Specs. I can only declare that We sail On Time and We Sink Ships...with No Delays. In other words, this machine runs "Flight Simulator" at Full Chat. Yet, I digress....

Pushing to the Surface is not a problem, except when the crew is wimped to the point of inactivity and unresponsiveness.

Once on the surface, the boat may be expected to run sluggish for needs of Batteries Recharging, or the obvious need to crest the wave. The former is determined by observing the screws (if one engine is offline/charging one propellor is not turning), the latter is evidenced by the seaworthiness of the boat (moving on the waters surface or the Watch Crew pretending not to be drowning). In my experience with this software, both boat and crew perform admirably. Usually. I think.

After a push to the surface with more than Slow Speed, regardless of boat/crew condition, rain or shine, Spring-Summer-or Fall (Forget Winter: there's Still No Snow), this Type II may rise to the challenge (pun). Marching at a fuel conserving One Third Ahead, the speed may cruise to 7kt, push to 8kt, or even claw to, perhaps scavenge 9kt; all with no consistency.

The first reaction after the Watch Crew have jumped On Duty and the E-motor Crew have suddenly become the Diesel Crew and all seems stable but performance is inexplicably reduced, is to give the Surface Order. It doesn't deplete the Charged Air Supply when executed properly, i.e. surfacing through sufficient velocity, and thus eliminates a performance draw if emulating a compressor operating. After batteries are necessarily charged a noticable rise in engine performance is expected. But is an Order to Surface needed to substantiate the operational expectant? The concern is that the boat may be running with ballast, a boon when needing to dive quickly, but a bane to efficiency (crew fatigue, engine performance, fuel economy, etc.).

I may be imagining, nit-picking, or probing a simulation that replicates an experience that I have not and thankfully will ever know. Like some of you, I keep diving...i mean striving...for something better.

Gratefully and humbly awaiting the Forum response/involvement....

and then my career was depthcharged into a restart.

Sinkfully yours,
Reverie

postalbyke · 05-02-11, 07:38 PM

I hadn't thought this deeply before, but this is exactly why these guys say "SH3 is not a submarine simulator, rather, it is a game..."
okay!
you're in the control room, observe the dials above your helm/planes operators, they will show you the rpms of the engines (p+s), if you look to the right of all that jazz, you will find additional gauges that correspond to compressed air in tanks, co2 content of air, and furthest right (IIRC) will be your "forward and aft" battery charge indicators (fallacious because there was only one battery bank in a type II)
if you want to be sure that you are rigged for surface (and playing in english keyboard mode), press "s" for "surface" or "e" for "emergency surface (compressed air blow)"

also: if you want to know your propulsion lineup (battery recharge or full power) ask your chief engineer (the officer icons on the bottom of the screen) about propulsion, the appropriate mode will be highlighted (normal, battery charge, silent, snorkel). he can also tell you about compressed air, batteries, and CO2 content, as well as overall fuel level under "reports"
ummm... lemme reread your post :P
okay!
your crew and damage reports can be seen under "F7" or your appropriate crew/damage control button depending on which mod you are or aren't running. the "efficiency" bar will tell you how "awake" they are, less than one quarter, and believe them to be asleep at their post :P
sea state can be determined by analyzing the "weather report" which comes from the navigator, but for some reason i have to ask the surfaced conning officer for that report. there should be a shortcut key for that, also (rtfm(this is also my problem)). wind speed drives the sea state in this universe, so min of a couple m/s and the sea is glassy, and sea state... drowning... is 15m/s
your specific date and year is found (in the mod i'm running) by mousing over the "clock" in the bottom display of the screen.
period submerged is your dice, and can be analyzed by aforementioned gauges.
also in your court is the manner of improvements aboard your boat (you are the captain, you should know) and can be monitored in port under the "u-boat" screen on the right before going on mission.

desirableroasted · 05-03-11, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverie

After a push to the surface with more than Slow Speed, regardless of boat/crew condition, rain or shine, Spring-Summer-or Fall (Forget Winter: there's Still No Snow), this Type II may rise to the challenge (pun). Marching at a fuel conserving One Third Ahead, the speed may cruise to 7kt, push to 8kt, or even claw to, perhaps scavenge 9kt; all with no consistency.

One Third Ahead is not the most fuel efficient speed, though it is the most efficient of the engine telegraph positions. If you use set according to knots, you want to aim for 8, which is about 10% more fuel efficient than the engine telegraph setting.

If you want to be really accurate, you can adjust speed until you make 215 RPMs (in a VIIB), which is the most fuel-efficient RPM setting. (A mod exists that will make the telegraph setting the most efficient; perhaps some kind soul will remind me what it is).

However, if you do set speed to "8 knots," you are merely ordering your Engineering Officer to "make turns (rpms) for 8 knots." Your boat will achieve those 8 knots in calm winds and smooth seas, and if no engine power is being used to compress air or recharge batts. But in rough seas, you can easily find "making turns for 8 knots" giving you only 5 or 6 knots of actual speed.

frau kaleun · 05-03-11, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

(A mod exists that will make the telegraph setting the most efficient; perhaps some kind soul will remind me what it is).

WB's Fuel Economy?

Gargamel · 05-03-11, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

WB's Fuel Economy?

Thats the one. Come packaged with the decks awash mod too. One of my must haves.

Reverie · 05-03-11, 06:38 PM

Then I am correct in believing there is no bilge/ballast meter, and go with the assumption that once the boat is on the surface all ballast tanks are more or less "dry".

Do i have this right ?

Reverie

postalbyke · 05-03-11, 07:25 PM

yes

btb, the fuel economic speed for type II is 5 knots surfaced

Fish In The Water · 05-03-11, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel

Thats the one. Come packaged with the decks awash mod too. One of my must haves.

Love the decks awash feature, adds a lot of fun!

Wreford-Brown · 05-04-11, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Love the decks awash feature, adds a lot of fun!

You need to thank the GWX team for the decks awash feature - all I did was make it easier to apply by pushing a button rather than selecting the depth manually.

Fish In The Water · 05-04-11, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

You need to thank the GWX team for the decks awash feature - all I did was make it easier to apply by pushing a button rather than selecting the depth manually.

Will do...

A big thank you to the GWX team, but also thanks to WB for modding it to the snorkel depth. A nice touch!

desirableroasted · 05-04-11, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Will do...

A big thank you to the GWX team, but also thanks to WB for modding it to the snorkel depth. A nice touch!

Well, now that the SH3 Commander Malfunctions+Sabotage mod has sent me back to home base after only being out an hour, I might as well take the opportunity to install this mod!

Osmium Steele · 05-04-11, 10:19 AM

I've not yet had a malfunction or incident of sabotage in 13 patrols with the mod enabled.

Can crewmembers be injured in sabotage/malfunction incidents?

Sailor Steve · 05-04-11, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

Well, now that the SH3 Commander Malfunctions+Sabotage mod has sent me back to home base after only being out an hour, I might as well take the opportunity to install this mod!

Reality bites! And so does realistic gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osmium Steele

I've not yet had a malfunction or incident of sabotage in 13 patrols with the mod enabled.

You've been lucky.

Quote:

Can crewmembers be injured in sabotage/malfunction incidents?

No. Sabotage and Malfunctions only affects operational values. Something will stop working properly or fail altogether, but nothing neither the boat or the crew will be damaged.

Osmium Steele · 05-04-11, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No. Sabotage and Malfunctions only affects operational values. Something will stop working properly or fail altogether, but nothing neither the boat or the crew will be damaged.

Seems I got some learnin' ta do. Time load up another machine to practice my non-existent modding skills. There's gotta be a way...

Thanks for the info.

maillemaker · 05-04-11, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Thats the one. Come packaged with the decks awash mod too. One of my must haves.

What does decks awash do?

Steve

05-02-11, 03:56 PM	#1
Reverie Planesman Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 195 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Are we really on the surface Depth changes and "taking 'er up" are tactically achieved through the use of the dive planes; the sole purpose is conserving a vital resource, the compressed air of a submersible in the theatre of war. However, through a sudden attachment to patrols ala Type II, I have been curious as to the ballast of a boat particularly as there is no meter indication similar to the Expanded Aces of the Deep. The Upgrade to realising the amount of water/ballast in the boat was beneficent to a commanders survival efforts. This apparently is a shortcoming to the 3rd Edition of Silent Hunter, or I am ignorant of the magic button to press and exploit this expounder. The logical response is to prompt for specifics: In what condition is your boat? In what "physical" condition is your crew functioning? How long have you been submerged? Can you ascertain the Sea State? Post the Era and/or time of year/season. Declare mechanical improvements/performance enhancements. Persisting in a Campaign valiantly lodged within a "canoe" (q.v.) has guaranteed a modicum of regale, offset by prodding for System Specs. I can only declare that We sail On Time and We Sink Ships...with No Delays. In other words, this machine runs "Flight Simulator" at Full Chat. Yet, I digress.... Pushing to the Surface is not a problem, except when the crew is wimped to the point of inactivity and unresponsiveness. Once on the surface, the boat may be expected to run sluggish for needs of Batteries Recharging, or the obvious need to crest the wave. The former is determined by observing the screws (if one engine is offline/charging one propellor is not turning), the latter is evidenced by the seaworthiness of the boat (moving on the waters surface or the Watch Crew pretending not to be drowning). In my experience with this software, both boat and crew perform admirably. Usually. I think. After a push to the surface with more than Slow Speed, regardless of boat/crew condition, rain or shine, Spring-Summer-or Fall (Forget Winter: there's Still No Snow), this Type II may rise to the challenge (pun). Marching at a fuel conserving One Third Ahead, the speed may cruise to 7kt, push to 8kt, or even claw to, perhaps scavenge 9kt; all with no consistency. The first reaction after the Watch Crew have jumped On Duty and the E-motor Crew have suddenly become the Diesel Crew and all seems stable but performance is inexplicably reduced, is to give the Surface Order. It doesn't deplete the Charged Air Supply when executed properly, i.e. surfacing through sufficient velocity, and thus eliminates a performance draw if emulating a compressor operating. After batteries are necessarily charged a noticable rise in engine performance is expected. But is an Order to Surface needed to substantiate the operational expectant? The concern is that the boat may be running with ballast, a boon when needing to dive quickly, but a bane to efficiency (crew fatigue, engine performance, fuel economy, etc.). I may be imagining, nit-picking, or probing a simulation that replicates an experience that I have not and thankfully will ever know. Like some of you, I keep diving...i mean striving...for something better. Gratefully and humbly awaiting the Forum response/involvement.... and then my career was depthcharged into a restart. Sinkfully yours, Reverie

05-02-11, 07:38 PM	#2
postalbyke Chief Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: In the past... Posts: 321 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 1	I hadn't thought this deeply before, but this is exactly why these guys say "SH3 is not a submarine simulator, rather, it is a game..." okay! you're in the control room, observe the dials above your helm/planes operators, they will show you the rpms of the engines (p+s), if you look to the right of all that jazz, you will find additional gauges that correspond to compressed air in tanks, co2 content of air, and furthest right (IIRC) will be your "forward and aft" battery charge indicators (fallacious because there was only one battery bank in a type II) if you want to be sure that you are rigged for surface (and playing in english keyboard mode), press "s" for "surface" or "e" for "emergency surface (compressed air blow)" also: if you want to know your propulsion lineup (battery recharge or full power) ask your chief engineer (the officer icons on the bottom of the screen) about propulsion, the appropriate mode will be highlighted (normal, battery charge, silent, snorkel). he can also tell you about compressed air, batteries, and CO2 content, as well as overall fuel level under "reports" ummm... lemme reread your post :P okay! your crew and damage reports can be seen under "F7" or your appropriate crew/damage control button depending on which mod you are or aren't running. the "efficiency" bar will tell you how "awake" they are, less than one quarter, and believe them to be asleep at their post :P sea state can be determined by analyzing the "weather report" which comes from the navigator, but for some reason i have to ask the surfaced conning officer for that report. there should be a shortcut key for that, also (rtfm(this is also my problem)). wind speed drives the sea state in this universe, so min of a couple m/s and the sea is glassy, and sea state... drowning... is 15m/s your specific date and year is found (in the mod i'm running) by mousing over the "clock" in the bottom display of the screen. period submerged is your dice, and can be analyzed by aforementioned gauges. also in your court is the manner of improvements aboard your boat (you are the captain, you should know) and can be monitored in port under the "u-boat" screen on the right before going on mission. __________________ God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. -Voltaire Last edited by postalbyke; 05-02-11 at 07:49 PM.

05-03-11, 07:25 PM	#7
postalbyke Chief Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: In the past... Posts: 321 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 1	yes btb, the fuel economic speed for type II is 5 knots surfaced __________________ God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. -Voltaire

05-03-11, 06:38 PM	#6
Reverie Planesman Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 195 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Then I am correct in believing there is no bilge/ballast meter, and go with the assumption that once the boat is on the surface all ballast tanks are more or less "dry". Do i have this right ? Reverie

05-04-11, 10:19 AM	#12
Osmium Steele Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upper midwest USA Posts: 1,101 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	I've not yet had a malfunction or incident of sabotage in 13 patrols with the mod enabled. Can crewmembers be injured in sabotage/malfunction incidents?