[REQ] Need help to create DC secondary effect

[jean74]

Hi everybody

Since TheDarkWraith has made his mod for Damage cause by fire I have tried to realize a second effect for the depth charge. In fact, I would like that DC has a small effect when explode far from sub (25-40m) and normal damage when closer (0-25m).

So I spent many hours to find the triggers and logic to create this “secondary damage effect” but I failed . I even tried to use an hex editor (On TDW advice) and compare with S3D, but I was unable to understand how the MOD created by TDW work and how I can create a similar effect for DC. Maybe I am too stupid or too old to imagine and create this.

Below the link for who wants to see my 3 tests (failed)
http://9giga.sfr.fr/n/50-17/share/LNK30744daac0958a22a/
(It's only the files to put in folder (Data\Library) -one by test- : not a mod)

I know that all of you are working on important Sh3 improvement, but if someone of you could accept to help me in this task or create this "secondary effect" it would be really and much appreciated.

The final goal of this SH3 modification, is to allow the light "flicking or wink" when DC explode far and next from sub.

Thank you in advance for your help or your reply.

Have a good day,

Best regards and thanks for all of your works,


Jean

[TheDarkWraith]

I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. Could you post a screenshot of something of the likes of what you're trying to do

[h.sie]

What about playing around with detonation radiuses in DepthCharges.zon?

Values: MinEF, MaxEF, MinRadius, MaxRadius.

[jean74]

Many thanks for your fast and kind reply.

As you want I have Made a jpeg to illustrate What I want to do.



It is not easy for me to explain because of my poor english langage! So excuse me if I am not easy to understand . But I hope this Jpeg could help you.
Another time, many thanks for your help.

Have a good day,

Kind regards,

Jean

[jean74]

In other terms I am only searching to have 2 AmmoDamageInfo when a depthcharge explode for 2 levels of damage (for submarine) regarding explosion distance.

I failed to create a working second AmmoDamageInfo and I need help for this .

Best regards,


Jean

Basically a realistic damage model, the farther away the sub is from the explosion, you still receive damage (To a point) but less and less as the DC's explode further out, I think thats what he's trying to say.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by jean74

Many thanks for your fast and kind reply.

As you want I have Made a jpeg to illustrate What I want to do.



It is not easy for me to explain because of my poor english langage! So excuse me if I am not easy to understand . But I hope this Jpeg could help you.
Another time, many thanks for your help.

Have a good day,

Kind regards,

Jean

The first thing I would like to point out is that your distances are much to large. Maximum damage should only happen out to about 25 feet (8 metres) and at 25 metres you should be taking no damage at all.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm

(see notes to Type D Mk III and Mk VII Heavy)

Early on there was a Depth Charge mod that set those parameters. I'm pretty sure GWX uses the same numbers.

[edit] Found 'em!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3173
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3174

[jean74]

Hi USNSRCaseySmith,

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith

Basically a realistic damage model, the farther away the sub is from the explosion, you still receive damage (To a point) but less and less as the DC's explode further out, I think thats what he's trying to say.

You are right !
More explanations :
I observed that if the submarine armor level is "-1" (folder data\submarine\NSS_UboatXX\ file NSS_UboatXX.zon) then, the lights are flicking when submarine take damage from depth charge explosion.

So I want to make the lights flicking even if the depth charge explode far from sub (45m) but with a very light damage (MaxEff = 1).
Why a very light damage ? Because the destroyer mustn't be damage by his own depth charge and lights must be flicking even if damages are very small due to distance.

With this mod, if someone succed to make it :
- If the DC explode far from sub from 45 m to 60 -> submarine is shaken.
- If the DC explode from 25 to 45m, submarine is shaken and lights flicked due to very lights damage (1).
- If the DC explode closer (from 25 to 12m), shaking, flicking lights and damages (80 to 230).
- If the DC explode at very short range (less than 12 m) therefore more shaking, more flicking lights, more damages and flooding (damage = 230).

I am sure that the flicking lights (if explosion range is between 25 to 45 m) can really increase the tension and realism during DD counterattack.

I tryed to make it inspiring "Damage cause by fire" created by TDW but I am far from so talented as him.
Even if I copy his fantastic work to create something (Damage cause by DC explosion), I failed . So I need some help...

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards from France,

Jean

[jean74]

Hi,

Thank you for your post.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The first thing I would like to point out is that your distances are much to large. Maximum damage should only happen out to about 25 feet (8 metres) and at 25 metres you should be taking no damage at all.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm

(see notes to Type D Mk III and Mk VII Heavy)

Early on there was a Depth Charge mod that set those parameters. I'm pretty sure GWX uses the same numbers.

[edit] Found 'em!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3173
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3174

Many thanks for the details. Sure, you are right !
So I set my DC stock effect to Min radius 8 m, Max radius 25 m MaxEff 230, and MinEff 2.

But I am sure that if DC explode at 30 or 35 m the shakes makes light flicking inside sub even if there is no damage.
What do you think about this ?

Another time Many thanks for your help and for your nice advice.

Kind regards

Jean

Originally Posted by jean74

Hi USNSRCaseySmith,



You are right !
More explanations :
I observed that if the submarine armor level is "-1" (folder data\submarine\NSS_UboatXX\ file NSS_UboatXX.zon) then, the lights are flicking when submarine take damage from depth charge explosion.

So I want to make the lights flicking even if the depth charge explode far from sub (45m) but with a very light damage (MaxEff = 1).
Why a very light damage ? Because the destroyer mustn't be damage by his own depth charge and lights must be flicking even if damages are very small due to distance.

With this mod, if someone succed to make it :
- If the DC explode far from sub from 45 m to 60 -> submarine is shaken.
- If the DC explode from 25 to 45m, submarine is shaken and lights flicked due to very lights damage (1).
- If the DC explode closer (from 25 to 12m), shaking, flicking lights and damages (80 to 230).
- If the DC explode at very short range (less than 12 m) therefore more shaking, more flicking lights, more damages and flooding (damage = 230).

I am sure that the flicking lights (if explosion range is between 25 to 45 m) can really increase the tension and realism during DD counterattack.

I tryed to make it inspiring "Damage cause by fire" created by TDW but I am far from so talented as him.
Even if I copy his fantastic work to create something (Damage cause by DC explosion), I failed . So I need some help...

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards from France,

Jean

The only problem with the light damage though is that your sub will be destroyed easily. 1 point of damage (Assuming we're talking percentage points) would be fine, but 100 and you sink, and the thing is Destroyers can have hundreds of Depth Charges. So it'd be impossible to survive a Dc'ing without escaping somehow, late war, forget about it its not happening.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by jean74

Hi,

Thank you for your post.



Many thanks for the details. Sure, you are right !
So I set my DC stock effect to Min radius 8 m, Max radius 25 m MaxEff 230, and MinEff 2.

But I am sure that if DC explode at 30 or 35 m the shakes makes light flicking inside sub even if there is no damage.
What do you think about this ?

Another time Many thanks for your help and for your nice advice.

Kind regards

Jean

I think you are right about shaking and minor damage.
The 8m and 16m distances are probably correct as far as they go, but most likely were based on hull damage, which would be easier to estimate. From what I've read, most subs sunk by DC's, were KO'd by accumulated damage rather than by a few lucky hits. The USN dropped DC's by their subs at periscope depth to "indoctrinate" their crews. This was done at 200 and 100yd distances. This suggests that is was considered unsafe the drop much closer than that. I can imagine men and loose equiptment could be thrown against steel members of the interior even if the hull sustained "no damage".

[jean74]

@Sailor Steeve

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The first thing I would like to point out is that your distances are much to large. Maximum damage should only happen out to about 25 feet (8 metres) and at 25 metres you should be taking no damage at all.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm

(see notes to Type D Mk III and Mk VII Heavy)

Early on there was a Depth Charge mod that set those parameters. I'm pretty sure GWX uses the same numbers.

[edit] Found 'em!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3173
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3174

Many thanks for the reply and for files. I will download them this evening (now I am at work).


@ USNSRCaseySmith

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith

The only problem with the light damage though is that your sub will be destroyed easily. 1 point of damage (Assuming we're talking percentage points) would be fine, but 100 and you sink, and the thing is Destroyers can have hundreds of Depth Charges. So it'd be impossible to survive a Dc'ing without escaping somehow, late war, forget about it its not happening.

When I speak about 1 or 230 damage it's in game "Mineff" (or Maxeff).
And I know that Maxeff at 230 can't destroyed the submarine in only one shot. So the secondary "depth charge effect" that I would like to have (with Maxeff at 1) could cause only a very, very light small damage, just enought to make lights flickering. And in this case, the quantity of depth charges to destroyed the submarine would be probably the same as without the secondary "depth charge effect".

But the immersivity will be improved by the flickering lights.



@ TorpX

Originally Posted by TorpX

I think you are right about shaking and minor damage.
The 8m and 16m distances are probably correct as far as they go, but most likely were based on hull damage, which would be easier to estimate. From what I've read, most subs sunk by DC's, were KO'd by accumulated damage rather than by a few lucky hits. The USN dropped DC's by their subs at periscope depth to "indoctrinate" their crews. This was done at 200 and 100yd distances. This suggests that is was considered unsafe the drop much closer than that. I can imagine men and loose equiptment could be thrown against steel members of the interior even if the hull sustained "no damage".

Thank you for your advice.

If someone could help me to create (or create himself) this secondary effect, we will able to modifie Mineff, Maxeff, Maxradius and min radius (from the secondary depth charge effect) to adjust them.
I am sure that It would be a great immersivity mod.

So if a talented modder could accept to help in this project it will really appreciated.

Thanks for all your reply,

Kind regards,

Jean

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by jean74

But I am sure that if DC explode at 30 or 35 m the shakes makes light flicking inside sub even if there is no damage.
What do you think about this ?

I don't know. I think this is a case of whatever makes you happy.

From what I've read, most subs sunk by DC's, were KO'd by accumulated damage rather than by a few lucky hits.

How would anyone know that? The attacking surface ships would have no way of knowing how close any of their depth charges came to the sub, nor how many did what damage. If the sub was sunk then the guys inside aren't around to say what happened inside.

The USN dropped DC's by their subs at periscope depth to "indoctrinate" their crews. This was done at 200 and 100yd distances.

??? The only thing I remember reading about that said that they dropped them at least half-a-mile away. That was a long time ago, and I could be misremembering, but I would think that dropping them that close would be asking for trouble.

[jean74]

Good afternoon TheDarkWraigth

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. Could you post a screenshot of something of the likes of what you're trying to do

It seems that you are the only on able to make what I would like have.
So, as you made your mode "Unit damage from smoke and/or fires" where damages are linked on fire or smoke particles (in particles.dat), could you make the same effect but linked with depth charges explosion particles (in particles.dat) ?
I spent many time to try to copy your incredible work, to create this "damage from DC" with S3D but it don't work.
I think that the "secret" is inside the last "particule controler" that S3D can't interprete. My skills in modding (very very far from yours) don't allow me to understand by Hex Editor what you made for your mod is working. However I searched and searched...
Maybe are you magician ? But certainly, you are a genius !

So I am only interested by result and pleasure with playing SH3 , not by copying or stealing your work.

I know that you are very busy and you are working on great Silent Hunter improvement, but if you could have a moment to regard my problem, you certainly would make me very,very Happy and grateful.

If I am always not clear in my explanations please, tell me.
Thanks for reading,

Kind regards from France


Jean

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

How would anyone know that? The attacking surface ships would have no way of knowing how close any of their depth charges came to the sub, nor how many did what damage. If the sub was sunk then the guys inside aren't around to say what happened inside.

As far as subs sunk, you are right. I assume what I read was based on U-boats that were forced to the surface, where the crew was captured. I don't know the details. However, the numbers you gave for min. blast radius of DC, being 8m or less, tends to suggest single catastrophic hits were not the likely.

??? The only thing I remember reading about that said that they dropped them at least half-a-mile away. That was a long time ago, and I could be misremembering, but I would think that dropping them that close would be asking for trouble

My source is O'Kane.