A humiliating end for HMS Ark Royal and the royal navy.

[tommo8993]

Like HMS Invincible and some other "surplus" ships shes going to be put on the MOD version of ebay.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12883511


These defence cuts WILL cost lives. Its ok saying that we cannot predict any wars. Did anybody in 1931 predict the size of the fleet we would need in 1941? The falklands we had 2 days warning. A regiment of tanks can be built in less than a week at full speed. A squadren of fighter jets less than a month. An aircraft carrier depending in size can take over 18months at full speed.

They say history repeats itself, the last time we said we were going to cut all our carriers was 1981, a year later was when we needed them. The UK cannot rely on the USA for help, they have never helped us without been attack first. Suez they betrayed us and the falkands they abandoned us.

In short the UK is doomed.

[Gerald]

Many of these ships, it is too early to retire, I will remember all those defense decisions that my country has taken in downsizing, certainly nowhere near the UK, but this seems to be an economic trend in many Western countries and it may of course impact; a person with the rank of major are in "normal" case 15 years to build, so the replacement of fleet and personnel it takes time

[Tarrasque]

I seem to remember that the decision to cripple the armed forces was based on the fact that the likelihood of war in the next 10 years was slim, so we would have time to rebuild them.

Less than 6 months later, we're in (yet another) new military conflict.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Queen Elizabeth class carriers are currently expected to enter service around 2020's.

This is what I really would like to ask from UK politicians:

Lets take extremely (hopefully) unlikely scenario that Argentinians decide to pay another visit to Falklands and assume that UK have to deal it alone. How are Her Majesty's armed forces supposed to take those islands back?

Am I only one who expects that when politicians cut and compromise enough defence capability someone will attempt to take advantage of situation?

[elephantium]

I tend to agree with the people saying that Ark Royal's decommissioning is foolishly premature. I'm generally in favor of the U.K. increasing its military power from the current level (within reason, of course).

My country's military power, OTOH, could use a SERIOUS haircut. It's completely unnecessary to maintain over half the world's naval power and close to half of the world's entire military budget. If I were in charge, I'd cut back to 30% of global military spending and still have plenty of safety margin in military terms.

I'd decommission some of the U.S. carriers, too, which might sound strange at first ... but it's a far cry from reducing the carrier fleet by ~10-20% to eliminating it for 8 years.

[tommo8993]

yeah, our defence policy relies to much on america. No offence but you have never help us with being attack first. WW1 and WW2 you were attack, thats the only time you have helped us i think. The falklands you said you had a non intervntion policy in south america, The campain would of been a lot easier with a carrier the sixe of enterprize their. Suez crisis america pretty much allied itself with the egyptians against us. Not to mention the monroe doctorine which sped up the demise of the brittish empire.

[Tin Can Sailor]

I beg to differ with the statement that the United States waited until it was attacked before it helped England. Tell that to the dead from the USS Kearny and the USS Reuben James. They were killed escorting convoys to England in October 1941 prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Both ships were torpedoed by German subs. The Kearny survived. The Reuben James was sunk. A Brit PBY (made in the USA) flown by an American pilot found the Bismarck. Other Americans risked and gave their lives flying and fighting with the RAF in the Battle of Britain. No mister, America didn't wait to be attacked to go to the aid of their friends the English.

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by Tin Can Sailor

I beg to differ with the statement that the United States waited until it was attacked before it helped England. Tell that to the dead from the USS Kearny and the USS Reuben James. They were killed escorting convoys to England in October 1941 prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Both ships were torpedoed by German subs. The Kearny survived. The Reuben James was sunk. A Brit PBY (made in the USA) flown by an American pilot found the Bismarck. Other Americans risked and gave their lives flying and fighting with the RAF in the Battle of Britain. No mister, America didn't wait to be attacked to go to the aid of their friends the English.

They are good examples of American casualities prior to the USA's official entry into WWII, but it must also be remembered the financial aid the USA provided Great Britain before their entry into the war through lend lease etc.

Getting back to the original subject, a future global conflict like the two world wars is extremely unlikely and it must be considered does the UK need aircraft carriers, trident submarines and the hefty cost that goes with them in the modern world? OK the UK has the Falklands to protect, but strategically they are worthless, the days of the Empire are long gone. The UK is no longer the superpower it used to be prior to WWII and can it really be justified spending billions of pounds on such hardware when the biggest threat today seems to be terrorism? And most importantly, can the country really afford it?

Nemo

[Alex]

Originally Posted by tommo8993

In short the UK is doomed.

An humiliating end it is, indeed. Especially in these unsure and uncertain times.

Getting rid of such a ship just because there's no world war actually, is just like getting rid of your umbrella after the storm thinking it will never rain any more.

[FIREWALL]

Even as an American I think it's disgraceful to dispose of a piece of history in that manner.

She played a large roll in history and deserves better.

[tommo8993]

Who in 1931 predicted the size of the fleet we would need in 1941?

[Anthony W.]

Seems like before a major war breaks out, everyone but the US down sizes their fleets.

Before WWII, we were still building carriers, about to launch a new class of battleship, and had another still class of battleship on thew drawing board. Design work on the B-29 AND B-36 had begun in the 30s.

So if the pattern repeats, theres gonna be another world war.