So, what would you do?

maillemaker · 03-07-11, 01:03 AM

So I've been playing "dead is dead" for a while now. Each time I die I start over in 1939. This is the longest I have survived - it is now December 1942.

I was patrolling south of the Rockall Banks, when, at night, I detected radar signals. As luck would have it, it was a task force - probably a sub-hunting group - 4 Clemson class destroyers and a central Bogue class carrier. I wanted that carrier.

I moved in to intercept, they were coming nearly right for me, so it was easy.

I launched 3 eels at the carrier from about 700 meters. All three hit, and down she went. Now, however, I had 4 Clemson destroyers very annoyed with me.

I dove down to 160 meters. Dodged and dodged, tossed some decoys, nothing worked. They were taking turns at me. So I pushed down to 200 meters. Still no luck evading.

So finally, I had enough. I secured from silent running, and ordered my crew to load all the torpedo tubes. Then I shot at flank speed to periscope depth. I winged the first one, nailed him right on his nose, but he was not sinking. The rest were confused - they were crowding each other and a couple of them had slowed to nearly a stop. I was backing up, trying to edge closer to the one I had wounded and was dead in the water, when suddenly, I don't know what happened, either one of the destroyers near me suddenly saw me and gunned me or depth charged me but WHAM! Attack periscope destroyed, after batteries destroyed, and both diesel engines destroyed. And I'm flooding. And now I can only make 2-3 knots. I set my repair crew to work and blow ballast, struggling to get back up to periscope depth. Thankfully, no one depth charges me during all of this.

Flooding is secured, and the water is pumped out, and we crawl back to periscope depth. Somewhere during this time there is an explosion, and one of the destroyers sinks - it may have depth charged itself. Anyway I crawl to periscope depth, and put up the damaged observation scope. Bang! I nail one of the last two destroyers with a magnetic, using perfect lead in front of him as he swung around.

The last Clemson charged me, but none of his charges struck home, though they did push me a bit higher in the water, drawing some machine gun fire. He past over my stern, and turned to port. As he did, I also turned to port and full reverse. He cut across my bow at about 350 meters and I slid another magnetic right under his belly, setting her on fire from stem to stern.

It was almost exactly midnight, two hours after I sank the Bogue.

I order us to surface, which we did, but of course with both diesels out, we could go nowhere.

Ironically, a life boat from one of the destroyers paddled right up along side us. We were the victors, but we were in nearly the same sad shape as they were.

After our repair crews had a chance to work topside (both flak guns were destroyed, but they were able to repair the radio and radar detector), I radioed our status back to base. After about half an hour, they replied, saying "Continue the fight as fuel and armaments allow."

Now just recently I have turned exterior view back on - I had been playing at 100% up till that point. I just found that I really enjoyed watching the ships sink and burn and blow up and the game wasn't nearly as fun when you are limited to the views from the boat.

So I was able to "end mission" and "return to base", without abandoning my career.

Do you think I could justify this by saying that I broadcast my status, and perhaps another u-boat came along and rescued us?

Should I have to "buy" another u-boat at home, assuming we scuttled our old one at sea? Or would they have been able to tow us home, or help us repair our engines?

Steve

Gereke · 03-07-11, 01:50 AM

I'd write the career off.

Mostly because I know that realistically, that scenario wouldn't have ended well in the U-boats favor. Real life Destroyer crews wouldn't pull some of the same bone-head moves that the AI in SH3 does... Namely line themselves up to be systematically sunk by a U-boat.

Only time I'd consider the "scuttle/rescue" option is if my diesels had been knocked out, yet I still managed to EVADE the destroyers. Again, realistically speaking being rescued would depend on if there was another U-boat operating close enough to pick you up before more enemy showed up. You have to take into consideration that you'd not be the only one to have thrown out an SOS.

timmy41 · 03-07-11, 01:57 AM

Regardless of the silly destroyers...
I guess you could justify it if you spent say a week or so out there and managed to survive in that condition, pretending that after that amount of time a returning U-boot would have picked up the crew.

maillemaker · 03-07-11, 08:51 AM

I suspect we could have survived - we had plenty of compressed air and we could dive to periscope depth and wait.

Steve

Kapt Z · 03-07-11, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gereke

I'd write the career off.

Mostly because I know that realistically, that scenario wouldn't have ended well in the U-boats favor. Real life Destroyer crews wouldn't pull some of the same bone-head moves that the AI in SH3 does... Namely line themselves up to be systematically sunk by a U-boat.

Only time I'd consider the "scuttle/rescue" option is if my diesels had been knocked out, yet I still managed to EVADE the destroyers. Again, realistically speaking being rescued would depend on if there was another U-boat operating close enough to pick you up before more enemy showed up. You have to take into consideration that you'd not be the only one to have thrown out an SOS.

I agree. It's late '42 near the Rockall Banks. Within range of radar equipped aircraft. Assume that at least one of the destroyers got off a distress call. I think you'll have 'hostile' company arriving shortly.

I'd write the crew off as POWs.

Herr-Berbunch · 03-07-11, 09:53 AM

To last until the end of '42 you've done very well. I'd now start a fresh career from that point with an inexperienced crew.

Good luck!

kapuhy · 03-07-11, 11:01 AM

Well, you have just sunk an aircraft carrier and four destroyers in enemy controlled waters - this is enough for Royal Navy to unleash all available assets in an epic pursuit that will make Hunt for the Bismarck look like a picnic. In real life even answering to your distress call would put any U-Boat in grave danger, for within short time entire area would crawl with aircraft and warships. Even if both you and the helping boat somehow escaped detection, how would you transfer crew from one boat to another in the middle of big naval operation of the enemy?

You might have had a slim chance before you surfaced in front of the British lifeboat - after that, they know you're still there and they won't let go.

maillemaker · 03-07-11, 11:41 AM

I can certainly take care of the British lifeboat...

03-07-11, 11:53 AM

Considering that you already over employed a gamey destroyer elimination trick to erradicate yourself from the first mess, you might just as well pay the piper for the second mess.

You can bet with a carrier and 4 destroyers down the allies will have a lot of air and surface assets in the area. Might as well close that career as a POW, and start another.

Aircraft did that to one of my old careers.
No way home meant it was over.

kapuhy · 03-07-11, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

I can certainly take care of the British lifeboat...

In your situation - I'd rather invite some British on board, distribute some food and blankets and generally be nice, since your best bet at survival is being picked up by one of incoming RN vessels.

Don't forget to toss Enigma machine and code books overboard before you do it, though.

Tessa · 03-07-11, 01:05 PM

Despite your damage, BdU isn't going to just write you off since you're whole crew is alive, and the boat is still seaworthy (just with no propulsion - granted that's a major problem). Since it was just a Bogue carrier (not one of the large ones) sure the allies are going to be mad, but they suffered some intensely more sinkings than a carrier. When Churchill asked for 100 tanks to help in North Africa the tank and engines were shipped in 2 seperate ships. The tanks made it to their destination, but chance one captain sunk the one with the 100 engines on it. The money and strategic value (granted the German's had no clue they sank such an important ship) of that ship was enormous. Despite the priceless cargo in that convoy it didn't have the entire home fleet go after that one sub.

Long as your propeller shafts aren't bent beyond fixing on board you have a chance. You'd have the whole mechanical crew strip down both diesels and see if 1 of the block/chasis was intact enough to repair. Then go through both sets of parts and see what you can use and what you need to get at least 1 diesel going. If there was a supply ship nearby (even within a few hundred km's) another sub would likely be dispatched to pick up parts and drop them off on your boat; it isn't without precedence.

Get the diesel back online and set sail for the nearest friendly port that has repair facilities and parts. If you were stationed in Kiel for instance you'd likely head straight to either Brest or Wilhemshaven depending on your position just to get repairs; then head to your home base.

To reflect that in the game you can either have a null mission where you don't have a patrol area, just need to go to whichever port you would have stopped out, dock (in real time, don't actually exit the patrol), then head back home to simulate the time spend moving from base to base. Or you could modify your career files and add an extra 2 weeks or so to your patrol time.

maillemaker · 03-07-11, 02:43 PM

Whew, thanks, Tessa!

I was sailing out of Lorient so I was probably only a day from home.

I really don't want to chuck the career since I didn't die. This is 32 patrols which represents at least 16 separate gaming sessions and perhaps 40 hours of game play.

I thought about submerging and seeing how far I could go on electrics. I bet I could have made it some ways at slow speed.

Steve

desirableroasted · 03-07-11, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

So I was able to "end mission" and "return to base", without abandoning my career.

Do you think I could justify this by saying that I broadcast my status, and perhaps another u-boat came along and rescued us?

My first thought (and why I didn't respond) is that I think teleporting home -- especially from that far away -- is just as "wrong" as playing with unlimited fuel or torpedoes. Yeah, returning from Gib with 1 torpedo is a long, boring slog, but it has to be done.

But Tessa's response brings up some possibilities that would probably lead me to roll dice: a) what are the chances of fixing one engine? b) what are the chances of making it to a friendly port? c) etc. You sound pretty banged up, so I might roll and say 1 or 2 says I fix the engine, and on a 2nd roll, 1-2 says I can make it to a friendly port. That would give you an 11% chance of keeping the career.

Otherwise, it's Canadian POW camps for you, but you'll eat better in 1944 than anyone at home, so that's some consolation.

Mittelwaechter · 03-07-11, 04:20 PM

Well, it depends on the weather I guess...

Your diesels a r e destroyed! You'll need help from BdU/nearest U-Boot. It will take a few days to arrive.

If you'll manage to survive for another 10 days you may be rescued. Surface and dive without engines 10 times and stay surfaced for 3 hours each turn to simulate the RAF and Navy efforts to find you.

If you survive - teleport back home and buy a new boat.

ediko · 03-07-11, 04:29 PM

I had that happen too, except after my eels hit Bogue the destroyers just went on in their formation without it

If I was you, I would just continue to play. It looks like you have already decided for yourself, just continue and be more cautious next time.

03-07-11, 01:03 AM	#1
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	So, what would you do? So I've been playing "dead is dead" for a while now. Each time I die I start over in 1939. This is the longest I have survived - it is now December 1942. I was patrolling south of the Rockall Banks, when, at night, I detected radar signals. As luck would have it, it was a task force - probably a sub-hunting group - 4 Clemson class destroyers and a central Bogue class carrier. I wanted that carrier. I moved in to intercept, they were coming nearly right for me, so it was easy. I launched 3 eels at the carrier from about 700 meters. All three hit, and down she went. Now, however, I had 4 Clemson destroyers very annoyed with me. I dove down to 160 meters. Dodged and dodged, tossed some decoys, nothing worked. They were taking turns at me. So I pushed down to 200 meters. Still no luck evading. So finally, I had enough. I secured from silent running, and ordered my crew to load all the torpedo tubes. Then I shot at flank speed to periscope depth. I winged the first one, nailed him right on his nose, but he was not sinking. The rest were confused - they were crowding each other and a couple of them had slowed to nearly a stop. I was backing up, trying to edge closer to the one I had wounded and was dead in the water, when suddenly, I don't know what happened, either one of the destroyers near me suddenly saw me and gunned me or depth charged me but WHAM! Attack periscope destroyed, after batteries destroyed, and both diesel engines destroyed. And I'm flooding. And now I can only make 2-3 knots. I set my repair crew to work and blow ballast, struggling to get back up to periscope depth. Thankfully, no one depth charges me during all of this. Flooding is secured, and the water is pumped out, and we crawl back to periscope depth. Somewhere during this time there is an explosion, and one of the destroyers sinks - it may have depth charged itself. Anyway I crawl to periscope depth, and put up the damaged observation scope. Bang! I nail one of the last two destroyers with a magnetic, using perfect lead in front of him as he swung around. The last Clemson charged me, but none of his charges struck home, though they did push me a bit higher in the water, drawing some machine gun fire. He past over my stern, and turned to port. As he did, I also turned to port and full reverse. He cut across my bow at about 350 meters and I slid another magnetic right under his belly, setting her on fire from stem to stern. It was almost exactly midnight, two hours after I sank the Bogue. I order us to surface, which we did, but of course with both diesels out, we could go nowhere. Ironically, a life boat from one of the destroyers paddled right up along side us. We were the victors, but we were in nearly the same sad shape as they were. After our repair crews had a chance to work topside (both flak guns were destroyed, but they were able to repair the radio and radar detector), I radioed our status back to base. After about half an hour, they replied, saying "Continue the fight as fuel and armaments allow." Now just recently I have turned exterior view back on - I had been playing at 100% up till that point. I just found that I really enjoyed watching the ships sink and burn and blow up and the game wasn't nearly as fun when you are limited to the views from the boat. So I was able to "end mission" and "return to base", without abandoning my career. Do you think I could justify this by saying that I broadcast my status, and perhaps another u-boat came along and rescued us? Should I have to "buy" another u-boat at home, assuming we scuttled our old one at sea? Or would they have been able to tow us home, or help us repair our engines? Steve

03-07-11, 09:53 AM	#6
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	To last until the end of '42 you've done very well. I'd now start a fresh career from that point with an inexperienced crew. Good luck! __________________

03-07-11, 04:20 PM	#14
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Well, it depends on the weather I guess... Your diesels a r e destroyed! You'll need help from BdU/nearest U-Boot. It will take a few days to arrive. If you'll manage to survive for another 10 days you may be rescued. Surface and dive without engines 10 times and stay surfaced for 3 hours each turn to simulate the RAF and Navy efforts to find you. If you survive - teleport back home and buy a new boat. __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

03-07-11, 01:50 AM	#2
Gereke A-ganger Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 76 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	I'd write the career off. Mostly because I know that realistically, that scenario wouldn't have ended well in the U-boats favor. Real life Destroyer crews wouldn't pull some of the same bone-head moves that the AI in SH3 does... Namely line themselves up to be systematically sunk by a U-boat. Only time I'd consider the "scuttle/rescue" option is if my diesels had been knocked out, yet I still managed to EVADE the destroyers. Again, realistically speaking being rescued would depend on if there was another U-boat operating close enough to pick you up before more enemy showed up. You have to take into consideration that you'd not be the only one to have thrown out an SOS.

03-07-11, 01:57 AM	#3
timmy41 Weps Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 367 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Regardless of the silly destroyers... I guess you could justify it if you spent say a week or so out there and managed to survive in that condition, pretending that after that amount of time a returning U-boot would have picked up the crew.

03-07-11, 08:51 AM	#4
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	I suspect we could have survived - we had plenty of compressed air and we could dive to periscope depth and wait. Steve

03-07-11, 11:01 AM	#7
kapuhy Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Poland Posts: 874 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 3	Well, you have just sunk an aircraft carrier and four destroyers in enemy controlled waters - this is enough for Royal Navy to unleash all available assets in an epic pursuit that will make Hunt for the Bismarck look like a picnic. In real life even answering to your distress call would put any U-Boat in grave danger, for within short time entire area would crawl with aircraft and warships. Even if both you and the helping boat somehow escaped detection, how would you transfer crew from one boat to another in the middle of big naval operation of the enemy? You might have had a slim chance before you surfaced in front of the British lifeboat - after that, they know you're still there and they won't let go.

03-07-11, 11:41 AM	#8
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	I can certainly take care of the British lifeboat...

03-07-11, 11:53 AM	#9
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Considering that you already over employed a gamey destroyer elimination trick to erradicate yourself from the first mess, you might just as well pay the piper for the second mess. You can bet with a carrier and 4 destroyers down the allies will have a lot of air and surface assets in the area. Might as well close that career as a POW, and start another. Aircraft did that to one of my old careers. No way home meant it was over.

03-07-11, 01:05 PM	#11
Tessa Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: CG 96 Posts: 861 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Despite your damage, BdU isn't going to just write you off since you're whole crew is alive, and the boat is still seaworthy (just with no propulsion - granted that's a major problem). Since it was just a Bogue carrier (not one of the large ones) sure the allies are going to be mad, but they suffered some intensely more sinkings than a carrier. When Churchill asked for 100 tanks to help in North Africa the tank and engines were shipped in 2 seperate ships. The tanks made it to their destination, but chance one captain sunk the one with the 100 engines on it. The money and strategic value (granted the German's had no clue they sank such an important ship) of that ship was enormous. Despite the priceless cargo in that convoy it didn't have the entire home fleet go after that one sub. Long as your propeller shafts aren't bent beyond fixing on board you have a chance. You'd have the whole mechanical crew strip down both diesels and see if 1 of the block/chasis was intact enough to repair. Then go through both sets of parts and see what you can use and what you need to get at least 1 diesel going. If there was a supply ship nearby (even within a few hundred km's) another sub would likely be dispatched to pick up parts and drop them off on your boat; it isn't without precedence. Get the diesel back online and set sail for the nearest friendly port that has repair facilities and parts. If you were stationed in Kiel for instance you'd likely head straight to either Brest or Wilhemshaven depending on your position just to get repairs; then head to your home base. To reflect that in the game you can either have a null mission where you don't have a patrol area, just need to go to whichever port you would have stopped out, dock (in real time, don't actually exit the patrol), then head back home to simulate the time spend moving from base to base. Or you could modify your career files and add an extra 2 weeks or so to your patrol time.

03-07-11, 02:43 PM	#12
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Whew, thanks, Tessa! I was sailing out of Lorient so I was probably only a day from home. I really don't want to chuck the career since I didn't die. This is 32 patrols which represents at least 16 separate gaming sessions and perhaps 40 hours of game play. I thought about submerging and seeing how far I could go on electrics. I bet I could have made it some ways at slow speed. Steve

03-07-11, 04:29 PM	#15
ediko Electrician's Mate Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Latvia Posts: 137 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I had that happen too, except after my eels hit Bogue the destroyers just went on in their formation without it If I was you, I would just continue to play. It looks like you have already decided for yourself, just continue and be more cautious next time.