Deck Gun Question

TLAM Strike · 02-23-11, 03:20 PM

I'm doing a paper for history class and I have a question about the early submarines.

What was the first class of submarine to have a deck gun?

I want to say its the British 'D' class but I can't confirm it 100%.

the_tyrant · 02-23-11, 03:27 PM

Quote:

The deck gun was first used during World War I by the Germans and proved its worth in cases where the U-boat needed to conserve torpedoes or to attack enemy vessels that were straggling behind the convoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deck_gun

(you got me curious too, I'm searching right now. will edit this post later with more information)

finally, something military that TLAM does not know!

Herr-Berbunch · 02-23-11, 03:51 PM

Blimey - the TLAMipedia is not 100% sure

From what I can ascertain in 10 mins of google is that RN Sub 'D4 was the first in 1910/11' - Wikipedia just says it was first used by the Germans, but not backed up with any facts or figures.

Hmm, Google or Wikipedia - the choice is yours.

UnderseaLcpl · 02-23-11, 03:55 PM

If you want to get really technical about it, no submarine has ever had a deck gun. By the time the first true submarine craft were introduced (rather than submersible torpedo-boats) the practicality of the deck gun had long since vanished.

Anyway, I hope this site helps: http://pigboats.com/subs/deckguns/deckguns.html

According to them, the case could be made for the Holland having the first deck gun.

Fincuan · 02-23-11, 03:57 PM

The German U-3 class almost ties with the Brit's D class.

If we trust Wikipedia D-class was laid down and launched earlier, but comissioned a few months later than U-3.

In "Submarines" by Anthony Preston there's also a pick of Turkish machine-gun armed sub Abdul Hamid from 1887. While not strictly having a deck gun it did have deck armament nevertheless.

mookiemookie · 02-23-11, 03:59 PM

I'm gonna say it was earlier than that. If you count a machine gun as a "deck gun" then it appears that the Ottoman submarine Abdül Hamid (1886) would be one of the first:

nikimcbee · 02-23-11, 04:00 PM

The Hollands had a dynamite gun.

Penguin · 02-23-11, 04:05 PM

Regarding submarines from the pre 30s, I my most material is about Kraut-boats, so you want to compare the dates with the D-class.

The first German boat with a deck gun was U3, launched in 1909. The boats at this time, had no real class names, U4 was also the same model. So you may call it U3/4 class.
They both had a revolver cannon, U4 changed it to a 5cm cannon in 1915, U3 sank in '11 through an accident. I can't find the model/calibre of the auto cannon, if you wish I can also try to check this out. My bet would be on a 3.7 cm.
The first boat with a big (5cm) gun from the beginning was U 14, launched in '12 , from the "U13-U15 class"

Source: Möller/Brack: Enzyklopädie deutscher U-boote, Stuttgart, 2002

If the info on wiki about D1 is right, she was launched already in 1908, so now you have to find out if she had a cannon from the start or if they were attached later.

Damned, seems like the Tommys beat us even in the deck gun race...

UnderseaLcpl · 02-23-11, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

The Hollands had a dynamite gun.

I would classify that as artillery.....I think

.....or did you mean that the gun was really awesome?

TLAM Strike · 02-23-11, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

Regarding submarines from the pre 30s, I my most material is about Kraut-boats, so you want to compare the dates with the D-class.

The first German boat with a deck gun was U3, launched in 1909. The boats at this time, had no real class names, U4 was also the same model. So you may call it U3/4 class.
They both had a revolver cannon, U4 changed it to a 5cm cannon in 1915, U3 sank in '11 through an accident. I can't find the model/calibre of the auto cannon, if you wish I can also try to check this out. My bet would be on a 3.7 cm.
The first boat with a big (5cm) gun from the beginning was U 14, launched in '12 , from the "U13-U15 class"

Source: Möller/Brack: Enzyklopädie deutscher U-boote, Stuttgart, 2002

If the info on wiki about D1 is right, she was launched already in 1908, so now you have to find out if she had a cannon from the start or if they were attached later.

Damned, seems like the Tommys beat us even in the deck gun race...

D4 was the first Brit boat with a deck gun as far as I can tell, she was commissioned in 1911

I guess the Germans did win that race, except for that Turkish boat...

nikimcbee · 02-23-11, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I would classify that as artillery.....I think

.....or did you mean that the gun was really awesome?

Zalinski dyn-no-mite gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite_gun

(not Zalinski)

Penguin · 02-23-11, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

D4 was the first Brit boat with a deck gun as far as I can tell, she was commissioned in 1911

I guess the Germans did win that race, except for that Turkish boat...

If I look at the pic mookiemookie posted, we can't be sure if the gun was only stationary mounted when the boat was surfaced

Gerald · 02-23-11, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

If you want to get really technical about it, no submarine has ever had a deck gun. By the time the first true submarine craft were introduced (rather than submersible torpedo-boats) the practicality of the deck gun had long since vanished.

Anyway, I hope this site helps: http://pigboats.com/subs/deckguns/deckguns.html

According to them, the case could be made for the Holland having the first deck gun.

Nice link,

TLAM Strike · 02-23-11, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

If you want to get really technical about it, no submarine has ever had a deck gun. By the time the first true submarine craft were introduced (rather than submersible torpedo-boats) the practicality of the deck gun had long since vanished.

orly?

Anyways I guess I'm only changing the line in my paper slightly
From:

Quote:

The British D class submarines became the first be equipped with a wireless telegraph, and one of the first submarines to have a deck gun and diesel propulsion (Cocker 27).

to:

Quote:

The British D class submarines became the first be equipped with a wireless telegraph, and the first submarine class to have both a deck gun and diesel propulsion (Cocker 27).

If I get in to every little detail this paper is going to be twice as huge than it already is. I'm not going to get in to that Turkish boat since I'm focusing on the 20th century only.

nikimcbee · 02-23-11, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

I'm doing a paper for history class and I have a question about the early submarines.

What was the first class of submarine to have a deck gun?

I want to say its the British 'D' class but I can't confirm it 100%.

It must be a cool class, if you get to do a paper about that. Once, for one of my military history classes, my professor asked to to introduce Das Boot. (We were studying military films) So I did a lecture on the U-Boat War

.

I was the class expert on subs (surprise, surprise).

Good luck with you paper!

02-23-11, 03:20 PM	#1
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Deck Gun Question I'm doing a paper for history class and I have a question about the early submarines. What was the first class of submarine to have a deck gun? I want to say its the British 'D' class but I can't confirm it 100%. __________________

02-23-11, 03:51 PM	#3
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Blimey - the TLAMipedia is not 100% sure From what I can ascertain in 10 mins of google is that RN Sub 'D4 was the first in 1910/11' - Wikipedia just says it was first used by the Germans, but not backed up with any facts or figures. Hmm, Google or Wikipedia - the choice is yours. __________________

02-23-11, 03:55 PM	#4
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If you want to get really technical about it, no submarine has ever had a deck gun. By the time the first true submarine craft were introduced (rather than submersible torpedo-boats) the practicality of the deck gun had long since vanished. Anyway, I hope this site helps: http://pigboats.com/subs/deckguns/deckguns.html According to them, the case could be made for the Holland having the first deck gun. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

02-23-11, 03:59 PM	#6
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I'm gonna say it was earlier than that. If you count a machine gun as a "deck gun" then it appears that the Ottoman submarine Abdül Hamid (1886) would be one of the first: __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

02-23-11, 04:00 PM	#7
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	The Hollands had a dynamite gun. __________________

02-23-11, 03:57 PM	#5
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	The German U-3 class almost ties with the Brit's D class. If we trust Wikipedia D-class was laid down and launched earlier, but comissioned a few months later than U-3. In "Submarines" by Anthony Preston there's also a pick of Turkish machine-gun armed sub Abdul Hamid from 1887. While not strictly having a deck gun it did have deck armament nevertheless.

02-23-11, 04:05 PM	#8
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Regarding submarines from the pre 30s, I my most material is about Kraut-boats, so you want to compare the dates with the D-class. The first German boat with a deck gun was U3, launched in 1909. The boats at this time, had no real class names, U4 was also the same model. So you may call it U3/4 class. They both had a revolver cannon, U4 changed it to a 5cm cannon in 1915, U3 sank in '11 through an accident. I can't find the model/calibre of the auto cannon, if you wish I can also try to check this out. My bet would be on a 3.7 cm. The first boat with a big (5cm) gun from the beginning was U 14, launched in '12 , from the "U13-U15 class" Source: Möller/Brack: Enzyklopädie deutscher U-boote, Stuttgart, 2002 If the info on wiki about D1 is right, she was launched already in 1908, so now you have to find out if she had a cannon from the start or if they were attached later. Damned, seems like the Tommys beat us even in the deck gun race...