Workers take over media outlet in Venezuela

[redsocialist]

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5954

this is socialism


Discuss.

[Takeda Shingen]

Why not look at a country like Sweeden as an example of socialism in rule? What is it with militant socialists and quasi-despotism?

[redsocialist]

because sweden is a social democracy not a socialist country.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

because sweden is a social democracy not a socialist country.

So in other words, it isn't socialism you are so much interested in as it is dictators.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

So in other words, it isn't socialism you are so much interested in as it is dictators.

Hugo Chavez is not a dictator, and venezuela is not a dictorship. Your being feed to much propaganda

I'm for social democracy but I am a socialist so advocate workers control over production.

Factories are not under workers control in sweden therefore it isn't a socialist country

Factories are under workers control in Venezuela therefore it is a socialist country

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Hugo Chavez is not a dictator, and venezuela is not a dictorship. Your being feed to much propaganda

I'm for social democracy but I am a socialist so advocate workers control over production.

Factories are not under workers control in sweden therefore it isn't a socialist country

Factories are under workers control in Venezuela therefore it is a socialist country

Factories are not under workers' control in either nation. They are under government control; and that control is exactly what the workers in your article are seeking. That is what makes them socialist. The difference is that the Swedes peacefully elected to have this style of economic rule, whereas the Venezuelans have it forced upon them at gunpoint. In Sweden, those same politicians are answerable to the Swedish people. In Venezuela, it is the people who are answerable to the oligarchy, and often through brutal means if one is to agree with Amnesty International (hardly a right-wing organization).

That Hugo Chavez is the de-facto dictator of Venezuela is reality. The illusion of fair elections is the propaganda.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Factories are not under workers' control in either nation. They are under government control; and that control is exactly what the workers in your article are seeking. That is what makes them socialist. The difference is that the Swedes peacefully elected to have this style of economic rule, whereas the Venezuelans have it forced upon them at gunpoint. In Sweden, those same politicians are answerable to the Swedish people. In Venezuela, it is the people who are answerable to the oligarchy, and often through brutal means if one is to agree with Amnesty International (hardly a right-wing organization).

That Hugo Chavez is the de-facto dictator of Venezuela is reality. The illusion of fair elections is the propaganda.

LOL you sure have a screwed-up vision of what socialism is and Venezuela. They have it at gun point? They have a democratically elected government. They are not under government control, their system consists of government service, "which is in every nation" except US which can't even provide healthcare. They also elected for Chavez to stay as the president as the people of Venezuela don't won't another Washington puppet banking off they'r countries. Also, as far as "economics", Venezuela has a huge growth in GDP, job creation and the inflation is lowering. If anything Venezuelans enjoy more freedom than in USA. Americans think they are free, but your really in the dictatorship of capital. I have a friend in Venezuela and supporter of the Bolivarian revolution, he lived in USA before, but moved back because he cares about his country, and doesn't want to be ruled by a bunch of thugs from Washington and the IMF. I suggest you do some research on Venezula before making these outlandish claims. Also, please do not use sources from US-funded opposition movements.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

LOL you sure have a screwed-up vision of what socialism is and Venezuela. They have it at gun point? They have a democratically elected government.

Isn't that the claim of every dictator? 'I'm democratically elected!'

They are not under government control, their system consists of government service, "which is in every nation" except US which can't even provide healthcare. They also elected for Chavez to stay as the president as the people of Venezuela don't won't another Washington puppet banking off they'r countries.

My neighbors are refugees from Chavez's Venezuela. They disagree. Since they lived there, their testamonial outweighs your fanatical rhetoric.

Also, as far as "economics", Venezuela has a huge growth in GDP, job creation and the inflation is lowering. If anything Venezuelans enjoy more freedom than in USA. Americans think they are free, but your really in the dictatorship of capital. I have a friend in Venezuela and supporter of the Bolivarian revolution, he lived in USA before, but moved back because he cares about his country, and doesn't want to be ruled by a bunch of thugs from Washington and the IMF. I suggest you do some research on Venezula before making these outlandish claims. Also, please do not use sources from US-funded opposition movements.

Uh, you are aware that 80% of Venezuela's GDP is through petrolium export, right? That leaves only 20% for in-house economy. In short, those claims are inflated. 30% of the populace lives on less than $2 per day. Average per capita GDP is around $13k (85th in the world). I mean, I found that through a 30-second google search. What was that about doing some research?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela

QED

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Isn't that the claim of every dictator? 'I'm democratically elected!'



My neighbors are refugees from Chavez's Venezuela. They disagree. Since they lived there, their testamonial outweighs your fanatical rhetoric.



Uh, you are aware that 80% of Venezuela's GDP is through petrolium export, right? That leaves only 20% for in-house economy. In short, those claims are inflated. 30% of the populace lives on less than $2 per day. Average per capita GDP is around $13k (85th in the world). I mean, I found that through a 30-second google search. What was that about doing some research?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela

QED

Your "refuge" friends are either petti-bourgeois or part of the 20 percent of bourgeois when the country was under Perez, who profited off the oil and was found guilty then fled to the US "like most US-backed dictators". Yes the Venezuelan exiles are everywhere. In Venezuela is a media war. The private media is constantly "in alliance with the US state department", demonizing Chavez, staging events, and the CIA even tried to assinate him in a coup in 2002. IMF/World bank hates democracy. Before Chavez inflation was near 70 percent, now it has greatly decreased. Also, the bolivar is the currency not the peso. My friend actually lives there and laughs at the exiles, and gringos who believe this garbage they're fed, when he can say/do more against his government than Americans can i theirs. In USA can you go around planning assassination of your president, or advocating death of your presidents? Of course not, this is what RCTV, or the other us-backed media does constantly. Workers control is alive in Venezuela, and the people will not take crap from either the US/IMF or any other imperialist institutions. They are on a independent path in alliance with other several Latin American countries. You will see Latin America turn RED. Also the rest of the world laughs at Americans believing what they do especially about Venezuela and Hugo Chavez. Also Hugo Chavez is advocating for similar democratic participatory movements, and people are following the example of the Bolivarian revolution. Personally, I think the people should smash the bourgeoisie, because it is a revolution. The only difference is they are doing it peacefully and democratically. And again, socialism is not government control, socialism is any economic theory/practice advocating workers control of the means of production, via interdependently or through the state. Neoliberalism destroyed Argentina (via privatizing all assets through banks/IMF loans, and they want to do the same with Venezula. Hugo Chavez and the venezulan people say no, and that is why all that propaganda is against him. Socialism vs neoliberalism, and socialism is winning.

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Your "refuge" friends are either petti-bourgeois or part of the 20 percent of bourgeois when the country was under Perez, who profited off the oil and was found guilty then fled to the US "like most US-backed dictators". Yes the Venezuelan exiles are everywhere. In Venezuela is a media war. The private media is constantly "in alliance with the US state department", demonizing Chavez, staging events, and the CIA even tried to assinate him in a coup in 2002. IMF/World bank hates democracy. Before Chavez inflation was near 70 percent, now it has greatly decreased. Also, the bolivar is the currency not the peso. My friend actually lives there and laughs at the exiles, and gringos who believe this garbage they're fed, when he can say/do more against his government than Americans can i theirs. In USA can you go around planning assassination of your president, or advocating death of your presidents? Of course not, this is what RCTV, or the other us-backed media does constantly. Workers control is alive in Venezuela, and the people will not take crap from either the US/IMF or any other imperialist institutions. They are on a independent path in alliance with other several Latin American countries. You will see Latin America turn RED. Also the rest of the world laughs at Americans believing what they do especially about Venezuela and Hugo Chavez. Also Hugo Chavez is advocating for similar democratic participatory movements, and people are following the example of the Bolivarian revolution. Personally, I think the people should smash the bourgeoisie, because it is a revolution. The only difference is they are doing it peacefully and democratically. And again, socialism is not government control, socialism is any economic theory/practice advocating workers control of the means of production, via interdependently or through the state. Neoliberalism destroyed Argentina (via privatizing all assets through banks/IMF loans, and they want to do the same with Venezula. Hugo Chavez and the venezulan people say no, and that is why all that propaganda is against him. Socialism vs neoliberalism, and socialism is winning.

So now you have a Venezuelan friend too? That's convenient.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Your "refuge" friends are either petti-bourgeois or part of the 20 percent of bourgeois when the country was under Perez, who profited off the oil and was found guilty then fled to the US "like most US-backed dictators". Yes the Venezuelan exiles are everywhere. In Venezuela is a media war. The private media is constantly "in alliance with the US state department", demonizing Chavez, staging events, and the CIA even tried to assinate him in a coup in 2002. IMF/World bank hates democracy. Before Chavez inflation was near 70 percent, now it has greatly decreased. Also, the bolivar is the currency not the peso. My friend actually lives there and laughs at the exiles, and gringos who believe this garbage they're fed, when he can say/do more against his government than Americans can i theirs. In USA can you go around planning assassination of your president, or advocating death of your presidents? Of course not, this is what RCTV, or the other us-backed media does constantly. Workers control is alive in Venezuela, and the people will not take crap from either the US/IMF or any other imperialist institutions. They are on a independent path in alliance with other several Latin American countries. You will see Latin America turn RED. Also the rest of the world laughs at Americans believing what they do especially about Venezuela and Hugo Chavez. Also Hugo Chavez is advocating for similar democratic participatory movements, and people are following the example of the Bolivarian revolution. Personally, I think the people should smash the bourgeoisie, because it is a revolution. The only difference is they are doing it peacefully and democratically. And again, socialism is not government control, socialism is any economic theory/practice advocating workers control of the means of production, via interdependently or through the state. Neoliberalism destroyed Argentina (via privatizing all assets through banks/IMF loans, and they want to do the same with Venezula. Hugo Chavez and the venezulan people say no, and that is why all that propaganda is against him. Socialism vs neoliberalism, and socialism is winning.

The statistics I posted and linked to say otherwise. Since you have nothing more but rhetoric, and of the hysterical variety at that, I think we're about done here.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

The statistics I posted and linked to say otherwise. Since you have nothing more but rhetoric, and of the hysterical variety at that, I think we're about done here.

There are other economic sources that prove the socialist model is working. I was explaining the situation, through all the anti-chavez propaganda. I would beleive someone who lives there now vs someone who moved, right when chavez took power.

[redsocialist]

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5971

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

So now you have a Venezuelan friend too? That's convenient.

Yes I have comrades all over the world.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Yes I have comrades all over the world.

Where are you from? Also, your link provides no hard statistics. Of course there is little inequality in Venezuela; there is no incentive for economic growth or personal gain. History teaches us that the people will eventually grow weary enough of this to revolt.