A dream is arising!

[Hans Witteman]

Hi fellow shipmates,

How would you like to see a totally new games with a fully dynamic campaign never before seen in any game covering all the theaters of u-boat warfare ex:

*Ability to have a Kaleun starting in u-boat scool with training ability that are really adding to gameplay.

*Ability to walk everywhere you please on the dock area like having a beer in a tavern with fellow shipmates, having a brawl in bar, playing card etc

*Developing your character which decision impact on the storyline.

*State of the art models of u-boat and ships and crew, building totally historically accurate , to recreate true era atmosphere.

*Accurate sea behavior and real weather effect with beautiful environment.

* Realistic 3d damage models with great flooding behavior and repair system.

* A satisfying and gruesome experienced when your boat is gliding to the bottom with your crew fighting the flooding to the bitter end.

Sound like a dream come true eh!

You all know that game here in Montreal are one of our major industry and we have plenty of talented folks willing to get their hands dirty on such endeavor.

A good friend of mine is a senior C++ programmer with a lot of experienced on game design and we are both u-boat and historic nutters

In a word we are starting to seriously thinking of making the ultimate sub simulation.

We all know the amount of work that will be required to achieved this ambitious project, the decision is not officially taken yet but after my mod is release thing will probably go on fast forward and we will be recruiting more talented folks to achieve this dream of the ultimate sub simulation.

We will just like to have your different opinions on what would you like to see in your vision of the ultimate sub simulation?

Some testing have already begun in Unity 3D it is a free game engine available on the web.

Don't be shy and express even your most goofy ideas.

Best regards Hans

[Damo]

Be careful what you promise, and I'll be careful what I wish for....

I hope you realise what you are actually doing here, in that making a mod and making a whole new sim from the ground up are like the difference between a sardine and a sperm whale. Financial issues spring to mind first, what game engine will you use? Creating a new engine is not an endeavour achievable through merely wanting it enough. If you use an existing engine, be prepared to sell your own Grandmother to pay for it.

As much as I admire your vision, UBI have made 5 sub sims and let's be honest, they didn't get any of them right and they are a major player in the game development industry. I'm not mocking you (although some definitely will), but I think you should really go away and do some serious homework on the level of expertise, financial backing, and talent to deliver everything you detail in your post. In the flight sim community I've seen people attempt the same thing and after 5-6 years of random, sporadic updates, those titles are still in development with no release date and a plethora of problems to deal with.

Like I said, I admire your vision, but forgive me for being skeptical.

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by Damo

Be careful what you promise, and I'll be careful what I wish for....

I hope you realise what you are actually doing here, in that making a mod and making a whole new sim from the ground up are like the difference between a sardine and a sperm whale. Financial issues spring to mind first, what game engine will you use? Creating a new engine is not an endeavour achievable through merely wanting it enough. If you use an existing engine, be prepared to sell your own Grandmother to pay for it.

As much as I admire your vision, UBI have made 5 sub sims and let's be honest, they didn't get any of them right and they are a major player in the game development industry. I'm not mocking you (although some definitely will), but I think you should really go away and do some serious homework on the level of expertise, financial backing, and talent to deliver everything you detail in your post. In the flight sim community I've seen people attempt the same thing and after 5-6 years of random, sporadic updates, those titles are still in development with no release date and a plethora of problems to deal with.

Like I said, I admire your vision, but forgive me for being skeptical.

You have all the right to be skeptical but you definably not read my thread carefully my friend i am in the business since the 3ds max version on DOS.

I have been teaching game design for 5 years my friend programmer have 12 years of experience in C++ and like i say the game engine that i mention in the thread you obviously didn't read at all say Unity 3D the full license is about 1500,00 gran so you are a cheap fellow saying my grand mother worth only 1500 gran hummm you should be affraid of her she is reputed to haunt mockers

If you have said that like 2 or 3 years ago i would have agree a 100 % with you but thing are evolving fast in the game industry and now it is possible.

And since i am experienced in the field i am not foolish enough to think it would be release this summer hum!

And i already mention in the thread that our decision is not taking yet another proof you are a selective reader.

We have already people interested who are experience in the field but like i say we are only gathering opinions from expert players to form our idea on the road to take.

Best regards Hans

[Magic1111]

Originally Posted by Damo

Be careful what you promise, and I'll be careful what I wish for....

I hope you realise what you are actually doing here, in that making a mod and making a whole new sim from the ground up are like the difference between a sardine and a sperm whale. Financial issues spring to mind first, what game engine will you use? Creating a new engine is not an endeavour achievable through merely wanting it enough. If you use an existing engine, be prepared to sell your own Grandmother to pay for it.

As much as I admire your vision, UBI have made 5 sub sims and let's be honest, they didn't get any of them right and they are a major player in the game development industry. I'm not mocking you (although some definitely will), but I think you should really go away and do some serious homework on the level of expertise, financial backing, and talent to deliver everything you detail in your post. In the flight sim community I've seen people attempt the same thing and after 5-6 years of random, sporadic updates, those titles are still in development with no release date and a plethora of problems to deal with.

Like I said, I admire your vision, but forgive me for being skeptical.

Hi Damo !

Very good words Damo, and sorry Hans, but this is point-for-point my opinion !

Best regards,
Magic

[Hans Witteman]

Another point that is tempting me to push this project forward is that even the most professionals game studio seem to not care about some very simple fact in design like the scale of texture!

This still baffle me when you look at brick on wall. pavement, grass you named it the scale is always disproportionate.

Game characters that look like stiff constipated muppets.

Proof that programmers should never attempt at design and vice versa

Best regards Hans

[TheDarkWraith]

The amount of resources and time needed from a small group of modders is unimaginable if one wanted to make an ultimate sim. Do you have a mathematician who is specialized in psychics AND who can program those into the sim? I could go on and on about other 'specialized' items needing programming but the point is made.

It is good to dream but reality causes you to wake up too soon from it

Wish you the best in your endeavor.

There was a group that tried making a submarine sim some years ago....can't remember the name of it.....I think they are still working on it. Point is it's been years they have been working on it and it's not finished yet. A major production studio can undertake a project like this in about a year or less time frame.

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by Magic1111

Hi Damo !

Very good words Damo, and sorry Hans, but this is point-for-point my opinion !

Best regards,
Magic

Hi mate,

I understand but what i don't understand is that none of you guys seem to have carefully read the first thread i didn't make any kind of promised .

As i see it, it is a crime here to ask for gamer opinions.

I won't request anything more and close this thread asap

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

Oh don't do that. I have an ever-growing list of things I think are essential to a proper subsim, and If I ever have the kind of money needed to hire the people to do it I will.

But I'm glad to help any way I can.

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

The amount of resources and time needed from a small group of modders is unimaginable if one wanted to make an ultimate sim. Do you have a mathematician who is specialized in psychics AND who can program those into the sim? I could go on and on about other 'specialized' items needing programming but the point is made.

It is good to dream but reality causes you to wake up too soon from it

Wish you the best in your endeavor.

There was a group that tried making a submarine sim some years ago....can't remember the name of it.....I think they are still working on it. Point is it's been years they have been working on it and it's not finished yet. A major production studio can undertake a project like this in about a year or less time frame.

Hi Dark,

When i first wrote this thread do people really think i didn't analyze all the aspect involve in such an endeavor?

Of course i did and my programmer friend is already experience in physic coding.

And what most team failed to do in my own opinion is to get organized
and set clearly each one task in the pipeline.

Another point is sometime related to the age of the team the younger you are the less realistic you are and sometime immature i know i was 20 a couple years ago

I am 45 years old and i am not talking without knowing just to make sure everyone noticed it!

Best regards Hans

[Damo]

Pardon me, I didn't intend on insulting you or your Grandmother, but seriously, what you are proposing is pretty far fetched, but then so was landing on the moon (and please, no conspiracy theorists please...). I'm not a selective reader, I was just in a hurry to eat my dinner so didn't word my post adequately. I feel a little hostility in your answer (only a little) which is something you need to get on top of as you'll more than likely face a few more disbelievers in time that will ask you a few more questions than I.

I've actually taken some time to look up the game engine and its site and wonder if you would be planning to release commercially or as a free to all software package? Given that you will need to pay out an initial $1500 for the pro version of the engine, would you need to pay additional fees to release the game commercially using someone elses engine? I would expect so. Also, by taking on other developers, you would need to reward them financially too if there's to be a commercial release, and if it's not to be commercial, they are effectively working in their free time for nothing, which, going back to the example of the flight sims in my original post, causes people to join and jump ship at inopportune moments leaving unfinished work that someone new then has to pick up mid flow, decipher, and finish.

All I'm saying is that it all sounds to me like a pipedream, a fanciful vision of what you believe you can do and the first instant that someone questions your vision you go a bit rude. If me being skeptical makes you more determined to prove me wrong then good, it means I've had a positive influence on you and your ambition, I don't seek to belittle you or to question your or your associates abilities.

The fact of the matter is, I've seen this kind of thing promised many times, and each time I made a similar post which kind of received the same response. We have a saying here in the UK; 'The proof is in the pudding'. In all the threads like this I've responded to, not one of them has delivered a working title onto my hard drive and until they do, I will always respond with skepticism.

But hand on heart Hans, I hope you prove me wrong. Now there's a mission for you.

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by Damo

Pardon me, I didn't intend on insulting you or your Grandmother, but seriously, what you are proposing is pretty far fetched, but then so was landing on the moon (and please, no conspiracy theorists please...). I'm not a selective reader, I was just in a hurry to eat my dinner so didn't word my post adequately. I feel a little hostility in your answer (only a little) which is something you need to get on top of as you'll more than likely face a few more disbelievers in time that will ask you a few more questions than I.

I've actually taken some time to look up the game engine and its site and wonder if you would be planning to release commercially or as a free to all software package? Given that you will need to pay out an initial $1500 for the pro version of the engine, would you need to pay additional fees to release the game commercially using someone elses engine? I would expect so. Also, by taking on other developers, you would need to reward them financially too if there's to be a commercial release, and if it's not to be commercial, they are effectively working in their free time for nothing, which, going back to the example of the flight sims in my original post, causes people to join and jump ship at inopportune moments leaving unfinished work that someone new then has to pick up mid flow, decipher, and finish.

All I'm saying is that it all sounds to me like a pipedream, a fanciful vision of what you believe you can do and the first instant that someone questions your vision you go a bit rude. If me being skeptical makes you more determined to prove me wrong then good, it means I've had a positive influence on you and your ambition, I don't seek to belittle you or to question your or your associates abilities.

The fact of the matter is, I've seen this kind of thing promised many times, and each time I made a similar post which kind of received the same response. We have a saying here in the UK; 'The proof is in the pudding'. In all the threads like this I've responded to, not one of them has delivered a working title onto my hard drive and until they do, I will always respond with skepticism.

But hand on heart Hans, I hope you prove me wrong. Now there's a mission for you.

Hi again,

I am sorry i am not rude at all it is just because even in this new reply you insist to mention i promised something again go read the top thread and tell me where i promised something please do that and after that we can have a serious respectful conversation.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

What i was hopping for that thread is only to get the experts player to say what are there vision of the perfect sim i should have formulated otherwise i think

[Hans Witteman]

Hi again gentleman's

Anybody know how to deleted a thread??

[Damo]

So basically the thread title 'A dream is arising' should be changed to 'A dream has been dreamt, but for now it must remain a dream'. The thread title, albeit through loss in translation, points me to believe that this thing is 'in the works' so to speak when it patently is not, and may never be. Plus it's in the mods workshop section, where we talk about 'mods' not dreams. Maybe it would have been better put in the SH3 forum, where all the other 'What would you like to see in your perfect subsim?' go.

No, this thread is designed to create hype for what 'may' become a reality that no one else has ever managed to do. If you wanted to avoid ridicule or disbelief you should have waited until you had some concrete foundations on which to say 'Ok, so I've done this, and I'm hoping to build it into this'. Right now it's pure speculation and doesn't 'fit' with the rest of the threads in this particular forum section.

Edit: And Hans, don't ask for the thread to be deleted, like I said before about your will to succeed, come back here everyday and read this thread and use it to spur you on to make your dream a reality.

With all due respect man.

[Hans Witteman]

Originally Posted by Damo

So basically the thread title 'A dream is arising' should be changed to 'A dream has been dreamt, but for now it must remain a dream'. The thread title, albeit through loss in translation, points me to believe that this thing is 'in the works' so to speak when it patently is not, and may never be. Plus it's in the mods workshop section, where we talk about 'mods' not dreams. Maybe it would have been better put in the SH3 forum, where all the other 'What would you like to see in your perfect subsim?' go.

No, this thread is designed to create hype for what 'may' become a reality that no one else has ever managed to do. If you wanted to avoid ridicule or disbelief you should have waited until you had some concrete foundations on which to say 'Ok, so I've done this, and I'm hoping to build it into this'. Right now it's pure speculation and doesn't 'fit' with the rest of the threads in this particular forum section.

Hi again.

You won and your are still not happy with it i wonder who the rude person over here case dismiss.

I now feel like i am not welcome over here anymore thank mate.

Going back to what i do best modeling

Best regards Hans