Does the moonlight affect the possibility of being detected at night?

Frank Ravelli · 01-24-11, 04:37 PM

Sorry if there´s any thread about this. The thing is that, if it does actually affect visibility, then it´s possible to adjust our plans acording to the moon phases, when approaching an enemy base, for example. Does the game actually reflect the changes in moon phases? If it´s so, then an almanac would be really welcome, as Diopos asked for in a different thread

Pitts2112 · 01-24-11, 05:16 PM

If my noob experience is anything to go by, yes. At least in the stock game, night surface attacks seemed a sure way for me to explore the absolute bottom of the seabed, one time only. In moonlight, early detection even before I spotted the enemy ships seemed assured. I gave up trying to make night surface attacks for that very reason, and certainly started to treat moonlight like it was high noon.

Ducimus says that TMO2 is supposed to change the parameters on that score and make visual detection a bit more realistic, but I haven't had the chance to try it out yet.

IIRC, there is another thread on here about moon phases and star positions etc. I can't recall where it is or what it said, but a quick search may find something relevant. There might even be an online almanac somewhere you could refer to at the start of a patrol. Failing that, take up amateur astronomy and back-time the phases for yourself. Then let the rest of us know what you come up with!

On the reality front, from what I've read, skippers would avoid surface attacks under moonlight and would sometimes specifically hold off on action (torpedo attack or shore bombardment) until the moon had set for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Another question I've had is if the game is sensitive to phosphorescense. Fluckey writes that it was part of the OOD brief to him anytime something was sighted at night, to alert him to tactical conditions on the surface.

Bubblehead1980 · 01-24-11, 06:15 PM

yes moonlight does affect how the enemy spots you.Other factors are fog, your subs speed(due to the wake) and the profile you are presenting in addition to distance.At times in TMO on dark nights I've had enemy escorts pass 1000 yards ahead of me and not detect me but usually you want to keep them 2000 yards away with your bow pointed at them.

WernherVonTrapp · 01-24-11, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Ravelli

If it´s so, then an almanac would be really welcome, as Diopos asked for in a different thread

You don't need an almanac. You just need this:
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phase/phases1901.html

TorpX · 01-25-11, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Ravelli

Sorry if there´s any thread about this. The thing is that, if it does actually affect visibility, then it´s possible to adjust our plans acording to the moon phases, when approaching an enemy base, for example. Does the game actually reflect the changes in moon phases? If it´s so, then an almanac would be really welcome, as Diopos asked for in a different thread

It definately does in RFB. I was stalking a Jap patrol boat on a parallel course at night. As it was hours before sunrise, I had plenty of time (or so I thought). However, the moon rising caused the sky to lighten just enough so I was spotted. This occured before the moon was actually above the horizon, BTW. The question about phosphorescense is a good one, but I do not know the answer. I have not made very many night surface attacks in SH4, but so far, I've found it difficult to get in as close as in the RL accounts. Conditions are highly variable though.

Pitts2112 · 01-26-11, 01:24 PM

TorpX, your night surface experience has been a lot like mine. When I first started playing, I went for night surface attacks since that was what many captains preferred in the war. I quickly discovered that moonlight might as well be daylight. I then discovered that I could be seen even when I couldn't see the enemy. In the end, I've given up on surface attacks at night but do get a bit closer than I would in daytime. I still submerge for the final 5-6,000 yards, though, just to be on the safe side.

Bubblehead1980 · 01-26-11, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitts2112

TorpX, your night surface experience has been a lot like mine. When I first started playing, I went for night surface attacks since that was what many captains preferred in the war. I quickly discovered that moonlight might as well be daylight. I then discovered that I could be seen even when I couldn't see the enemy. In the end, I've given up on surface attacks at night but do get a bit closer than I would in daytime. I still submerge for the final 5-6,000 yards, though, just to be on the safe side.

are you playing stock? The AI visuals in stock are screwed, they spot you at night as if you are a battleship lol always killed me. TMO and RFB made it better.

Armistead · 01-26-11, 08:53 PM

There's an old mod that adds the moon phases to one of the tabs in the F1 key guide. I'll try to find it. It's combined with several other items, intended to a version of SH3 commander for SH4, but easily broken out.

TorpX · 01-27-11, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

There's an old mod that adds the moon phases to one of the tabs in the F1 key guide. I'll try to find it. It's combined with several other items, intended to a version of SH3 commander for SH4, but easily broken out.

I think you are referring to Combat Information Center by Greyrider. I saw it in the mods section. I haven't tried it though (I got too many as it is).

Pitts2112 · 01-28-11, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

are you playing stock? The AI visuals in stock are screwed, they spot you at night as if you are a battleship lol always killed me. TMO and RFB made it better.

I was at the time. I've just loaded up TMO and 3D TDC, but haven't played much with those mods yet. I'll give night surface another go!

Bubblehead1980 · 01-28-11, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitts2112

I was at the time. I've just loaded up TMO and 3D TDC, but haven't played much with those mods yet. I'll give night surface another go!

Night surface attacks are much more possible in TMO, does of course depend on the moonlight etc.The flank escorts are usually you biggest problem, if you can wait until one of them decides to peel off and search way out in never never land, move in and attack real quick, then speed away, best bet.Timing and patience are everything.Mark 14's and the low speed setting at especially helpful.Usually have to fire from around 4,000 yards on a heavily escorted convoy which is unfortunate bc in real life they could get inside the screen and not be spotted.All depends on moonlight, sea state, your speed and how the convoy is set up.You will figure it out.Def a lot of fun.

01-24-11, 04:37 PM	#1
Frank Ravelli Sailor man Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Madrid Posts: 50 Downloads: 83 Uploads: 1	Does the moonlight affect the possibility of being detected at night? Sorry if there´s any thread about this. The thing is that, if it does actually affect visibility, then it´s possible to adjust our plans acording to the moon phases, when approaching an enemy base, for example. Does the game actually reflect the changes in moon phases? If it´s so, then an almanac would be really welcome, as Diopos asked for in a different thread

01-24-11, 05:16 PM	#2
Pitts2112 Watch Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	If my noob experience is anything to go by, yes. At least in the stock game, night surface attacks seemed a sure way for me to explore the absolute bottom of the seabed, one time only. In moonlight, early detection even before I spotted the enemy ships seemed assured. I gave up trying to make night surface attacks for that very reason, and certainly started to treat moonlight like it was high noon. Ducimus says that TMO2 is supposed to change the parameters on that score and make visual detection a bit more realistic, but I haven't had the chance to try it out yet. IIRC, there is another thread on here about moon phases and star positions etc. I can't recall where it is or what it said, but a quick search may find something relevant. There might even be an online almanac somewhere you could refer to at the start of a patrol. Failing that, take up amateur astronomy and back-time the phases for yourself. Then let the rest of us know what you come up with! On the reality front, from what I've read, skippers would avoid surface attacks under moonlight and would sometimes specifically hold off on action (torpedo attack or shore bombardment) until the moon had set for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Another question I've had is if the game is sensitive to phosphorescense. Fluckey writes that it was part of the OOD brief to him anytime something was sighted at night, to alert him to tactical conditions on the surface.

01-24-11, 06:15 PM	#3
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,100 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	yes moonlight does affect how the enemy spots you.Other factors are fog, your subs speed(due to the wake) and the profile you are presenting in addition to distance.At times in TMO on dark nights I've had enemy escorts pass 1000 yards ahead of me and not detect me but usually you want to keep them 2000 yards away with your bow pointed at them.

01-26-11, 01:24 PM	#6
Pitts2112 Watch Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	TorpX, your night surface experience has been a lot like mine. When I first started playing, I went for night surface attacks since that was what many captains preferred in the war. I quickly discovered that moonlight might as well be daylight. I then discovered that I could be seen even when I couldn't see the enemy. In the end, I've given up on surface attacks at night but do get a bit closer than I would in daytime. I still submerge for the final 5-6,000 yards, though, just to be on the safe side.

01-26-11, 08:53 PM	#8
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	There's an old mod that adds the moon phases to one of the tabs in the F1 key guide. I'll try to find it. It's combined with several other items, intended to a version of SH3 commander for SH4, but easily broken out.