Patio project

GoldenRivet · 01-05-11, 01:16 PM

Tomorrow i am starting a massive project in my pitiful excuse for a back yard.

The entire yard is only about 20ft long by about 8ft wide, it serves as a good place to take the dog for his business in the wee hours of the morning, and the patio is but a 6x8 ft concrete speck.

I feel like by sprucing it up and making it a nice place, my wife and I might spend more time out there in the mornings for a cup of coffee and perhaps a bit of breakfast... and i would certainly have a more relaxing space to enjoy a drink or a cigar or maybe a nice steak dinner once in a while with company.

I will be taking down the entire fence, and rebuilding that. I have precisely laid out plans, and all the right equipment i will need. I plan to use Cedar, not only for its pleasant smell, but it is naturally resistant to bugs and rot, and -i am told - it will age to a nice silvery color.

but the bigger project at least in my opinion is the patio.

You see, currently the concrete pad that serves as our "patio" is nothing but a place to stand really, and as a result we spend no time out there.

the yard... grass has never flourished in the back yard, and seeing that it is so small, i had considered getting some flag stone, excavating about six inches down, laying a bed of gravel, topping off with crushed stone or sand and laying the flag stone on top of that then filling in the spaces with more crush stone/sand - thereby making the entire 20x8 area a big flag stone patio. The whole stone patio will be surrounded by metal or rubber garden edging

three problems with this patio scenario that i have considered:

1. it eliminates the convenient place for the dog to go do his business, so these 2am trips to the crapper will involve putting on some decent shorts and slippers, leashing the dog and taking him outside where numerous distractions will turn a 30 second trip into a 3 or 4 minute trip

2. Though i have built my fair share of fence, I have never undertaken a stone laying project though it sounds straight forward based on my research, i cannot afford inexperience to screw the whole back yard up.

3. 160 square feet of flag stone wont be cheap... i think that stuff is currently priced about $4.35/sqft so i would be looking at dropping about $700 into the stone project alone and thats before i purchased any sand or gravel!

note: this will involve unscrewing and capping two or three sprinkler heads, also the ground is very firm lending itself to stone patio work.

the other option is to do about half of the yard in stone, and try to transplant grass into the rest of the yard. transplanting is all i havnt done yet. (i planted seed last spring and it did well but it just didnt last.)

Im leaning in this direction because the cons on stoning the whole yard are too great.

1. by doing half the yard, the dog still has a good 10+ by 8 ft area to do his business when we don't feel like leashing him.

2. doing half the yard is a much smaller project making it less expensive, more manageable and less time consuming.

i think the grass seed may have done better last year if i had excavated the top soil and replaced it. but re-seeding or transplanting the yard really seems like a job for the spring time.

so, the purpose of this post, is to throw this out there at the last minute and see if anyone has ideas i havn't come up with yet.

longam · 01-05-11, 03:06 PM

I would consider keeping some lawn for your nightly trip, but it sounds like your soil is really compacted. A good rework or till with some compost should bring it back for grass.

The flag stone would look great if you had a point of attraction like pergola. This would give you a purpose to go out and sit under it. Maybe even plant some vine for shade. It should be cheap to build compared to a gazebo or deck.

So I'm picturing a half in half area. You could even get fancy and make the edge where they meet swoop around.

Growler · 01-05-11, 03:43 PM

Aerate and turn over the soil in the grassy area you want to keep. Dog droppings should be removed, not left to rot - unless you want to turn them into the soil right away. Excavate the patio area to a depth of at least 8" and add a weed-barrier membrane to the very bottom of the patio pit - porous to water filling it up, but a barrier to weeds growing in the cracks from below. Level as best you can, with a minor grade away from the house - it won't do to have water from ice/snowmelt and/or rain pooling right against your home's foundation.

I'd leave some grass if you ever want an easy time selling the house someday.

Jimbuna · 01-05-11, 04:09 PM

Keep a bit of grass for the pet to do his business but do what I did, train the wife to clean it up regularly

I have timber decking on the other side of the rear garden and need to keep up with the creosote and regular washing because the dog often pees on it, turning it 'green' so the concrete option should be better.

01-05-11, 05:34 PM

As long as you don't have issues with water supply pave the whole area and include a gully leading to one of those buried tanks specially for dog waste.
Just hose the area down regularly and train your dog so his dirty area is next to the gully.

Quote:

I have timber decking on the other side of the rear garden and need to keep up with the creosote

I hope you have reported your supply of creosote for disposal jim

If you want better and longer lasting staining from your creosote mix it with used engine oil (which must of course be disposed of with the same people who must dispose of your creosote).

GoldenRivet · 01-05-11, 06:27 PM

Well based on the research, measuring, pricing and reading comments here... i have decided that i will do half and half.

Tomorrow morning we will be pulling down the old fence, once it is down we will auger new post holes, anchor in the posts and level them allowing them to cure over night.

While those are curing, we will excavate 5 ft out from the existing "patio" 6 inches deep placing a weed barrier down.

after placement of the weed barrier, we will pour about a 2 inch layer of pea gravel. Atop the pea gravel we will pour about 2 inches of paver's sand then moisten and pack it.

Once that chore is done we will lay down paver's stones in a decorative pattern as shown in the picture.

once the stones are set, we will pour down a layer of finely crushed stone, using a garage broom to fill in the spaces between the stone.

Miller time.

Friday, with the fence posts now anchored and the cement dry, we will construct the remainder of the fence.

Friday evening, the patio area will be cleaned up and new patio furnishings put in. I'm thinking 2 chairs, and one small table. I will also be moving my grill out from its corner of the garage.

it will be a busy couple of days.

The wife and i will have to decide what to do about the grass... but the soil does need to be addressed.

TLAM Strike · 01-06-11, 02:22 AM

Now don't lie to us, we are your friends. We all know you are really digging up your back yard and installing this "patio" because you need a new place to hide the bodies...

breadcatcher101 · 01-06-11, 03:00 AM

You can't hide very many bodies in a yard that size unless of course you work at it part-time.

GoldenRivet · 01-06-11, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

You can't hide very many bodies in a yard that size unless of course you work at it part-time.

or cut them up into small chunks and mulch them

Jimbuna · 01-06-11, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

As long as you don't have issues with water supply pave the whole area and include a gully leading to one of those buried tanks specially for dog waste.
Just hose the area down regularly and train your dog so his dirty area is next to the gully.

I hope you have reported your supply of creosote for disposal jim

If you want better and longer lasting staining from your creosote mix it with used engine oil (which must of course be disposed of with the same people who must dispose of your creosote).

Currently working out how to train the wife to apply it without causing an almighty row

01-06-11, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Currently working out how to train the wife to apply it without causing an almighty row

Thats a tough one, does she always start a fight with the neighbours when she works in the garden or is it only sometimes?

Armistead · 01-06-11, 03:29 PM

My company also doe's stamped concrete, flagstone look can easily be done, course you'd have to do the concrete work yourself for cost. I just did a bar inside doing the wood floor look. Everyone comments what beautiful wood floors, hard to convince them it's just stamped concrete finished correctly.

Growler · 01-06-11, 04:01 PM

Damn, Armistead - feel like a trip up to MD?

I could use that kind of skill in my place.

longam · 01-06-11, 04:50 PM

How to grow grass in Texas...

http://www.ehow.com/how_4523245_grow-grass-texas.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_4755369_grow-grass-texas.html

GoldenRivet · 01-06-11, 07:00 PM

i'm going with stamped concrete. found some the wife really likes.

Got the hard stuff behind us today.

started about 9am.

tore out the old fence, loaded it up on the trailer, the old holes worked out for us so we didnt have to auger new holes.

took lunch at 11:30

at noon we drove the old wood to a friends burning pile and unloaded it.

went to lowes and picked up concrete mix, 4x4x8 lumber and other odds and ends (the person helping us had no idea what a "four by four" was.)

got all of the posts cemented into the ground and level

finished up by excavating the patio area, probably would have gotten further but we just ran out of daylight. it has really been an all day project.

tomorrow we will finish the 5 or 6 square feet of the excavating and get it leveled and put down the stone patio. then take lunch and head to town to get the remaining lumber. once we get it home we will measure, measure again and cut and install. we are thinking tomorrow should be a lot faster than today.

the really tough part is always tearing it down, hauling it off, and cementing new posts simply because there is so much heavy lifting. the easier part tends to be putting up the smaller bits of wood.

cant wait to be done.

time for a dozen half shell oysters, cold beer and dinner

01-05-11, 01:16 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Patio project Tomorrow i am starting a massive project in my pitiful excuse for a back yard. The entire yard is only about 20ft long by about 8ft wide, it serves as a good place to take the dog for his business in the wee hours of the morning, and the patio is but a 6x8 ft concrete speck. I feel like by sprucing it up and making it a nice place, my wife and I might spend more time out there in the mornings for a cup of coffee and perhaps a bit of breakfast... and i would certainly have a more relaxing space to enjoy a drink or a cigar or maybe a nice steak dinner once in a while with company. I will be taking down the entire fence, and rebuilding that. I have precisely laid out plans, and all the right equipment i will need. I plan to use Cedar, not only for its pleasant smell, but it is naturally resistant to bugs and rot, and -i am told - it will age to a nice silvery color. but the bigger project at least in my opinion is the patio. You see, currently the concrete pad that serves as our "patio" is nothing but a place to stand really, and as a result we spend no time out there. the yard... grass has never flourished in the back yard, and seeing that it is so small, i had considered getting some flag stone, excavating about six inches down, laying a bed of gravel, topping off with crushed stone or sand and laying the flag stone on top of that then filling in the spaces with more crush stone/sand - thereby making the entire 20x8 area a big flag stone patio. The whole stone patio will be surrounded by metal or rubber garden edging three problems with this patio scenario that i have considered: 1. it eliminates the convenient place for the dog to go do his business, so these 2am trips to the crapper will involve putting on some decent shorts and slippers, leashing the dog and taking him outside where numerous distractions will turn a 30 second trip into a 3 or 4 minute trip 2. Though i have built my fair share of fence, I have never undertaken a stone laying project though it sounds straight forward based on my research, i cannot afford inexperience to screw the whole back yard up. 3. 160 square feet of flag stone wont be cheap... i think that stuff is currently priced about $4.35/sqft so i would be looking at dropping about $700 into the stone project alone and thats before i purchased any sand or gravel! note: this will involve unscrewing and capping two or three sprinkler heads, also the ground is very firm lending itself to stone patio work. the other option is to do about half of the yard in stone, and try to transplant grass into the rest of the yard. transplanting is all i havnt done yet. (i planted seed last spring and it did well but it just didnt last.) Im leaning in this direction because the cons on stoning the whole yard are too great. 1. by doing half the yard, the dog still has a good 10+ by 8 ft area to do his business when we don't feel like leashing him. 2. doing half the yard is a much smaller project making it less expensive, more manageable and less time consuming. i think the grass seed may have done better last year if i had excavated the top soil and replaced it. but re-seeding or transplanting the yard really seems like a job for the spring time. so, the purpose of this post, is to throw this out there at the last minute and see if anyone has ideas i havn't come up with yet. __________________

01-05-11, 03:43 PM	#3
Growler A long way from the sea Join Date: May 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,913 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Aerate and turn over the soil in the grassy area you want to keep. Dog droppings should be removed, not left to rot - unless you want to turn them into the soil right away. Excavate the patio area to a depth of at least 8" and add a weed-barrier membrane to the very bottom of the patio pit - porous to water filling it up, but a barrier to weeds growing in the cracks from below. Level as best you can, with a minor grade away from the house - it won't do to have water from ice/snowmelt and/or rain pooling right against your home's foundation. I'd leave some grass if you ever want an easy time selling the house someday. __________________ At Fiddler’s Green, where seamen true When here they’ve done their duty The bowl of grog shall still renew And pledge to love and beauty.

01-05-11, 04:09 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Keep a bit of grass for the pet to do his business but do what I did, train the wife to clean it up regularly I have timber decking on the other side of the rear garden and need to keep up with the creosote and regular washing because the dog often pees on it, turning it 'green' so the concrete option should be better. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-05-11, 06:27 PM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Well based on the research, measuring, pricing and reading comments here... i have decided that i will do half and half. Tomorrow morning we will be pulling down the old fence, once it is down we will auger new post holes, anchor in the posts and level them allowing them to cure over night. While those are curing, we will excavate 5 ft out from the existing "patio" 6 inches deep placing a weed barrier down. after placement of the weed barrier, we will pour about a 2 inch layer of pea gravel. Atop the pea gravel we will pour about 2 inches of paver's sand then moisten and pack it. Once that chore is done we will lay down paver's stones in a decorative pattern as shown in the picture. once the stones are set, we will pour down a layer of finely crushed stone, using a garage broom to fill in the spaces between the stone. Miller time. Friday, with the fence posts now anchored and the cement dry, we will construct the remainder of the fence. Friday evening, the patio area will be cleaned up and new patio furnishings put in. I'm thinking 2 chairs, and one small table. I will also be moving my grill out from its corner of the garage. it will be a busy couple of days. The wife and i will have to decide what to do about the grass... but the soil does need to be addressed. __________________

01-06-11, 02:22 AM	#7
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Now don't lie to us, we are your friends. We all know you are really digging up your back yard and installing this "patio" because you need a new place to hide the bodies... __________________

01-05-11, 03:06 PM	#2
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I would consider keeping some lawn for your nightly trip, but it sounds like your soil is really compacted. A good rework or till with some compost should bring it back for grass. The flag stone would look great if you had a point of attraction like pergola. This would give you a purpose to go out and sit under it. Maybe even plant some vine for shade. It should be cheap to build compared to a gazebo or deck. So I'm picturing a half in half area. You could even get fancy and make the edge where they meet swoop around.

01-06-11, 03:00 AM	#8
breadcatcher101 Captain Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 546 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	You can't hide very many bodies in a yard that size unless of course you work at it part-time.

01-06-11, 03:29 PM	#12
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	My company also doe's stamped concrete, flagstone look can easily be done, course you'd have to do the concrete work yourself for cost. I just did a bar inside doing the wood floor look. Everyone comments what beautiful wood floors, hard to convince them it's just stamped concrete finished correctly.

01-06-11, 04:01 PM	#13
Growler A long way from the sea Join Date: May 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,913 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Damn, Armistead - feel like a trip up to MD? I could use that kind of skill in my place. __________________ At Fiddler’s Green, where seamen true When here they’ve done their duty The bowl of grog shall still renew And pledge to love and beauty.

01-06-11, 04:50 PM	#14
longam Admiral Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,014 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	How to grow grass in Texas... http://www.ehow.com/how_4523245_grow-grass-texas.html http://www.ehow.com/video_4755369_grow-grass-texas.html

01-06-11, 07:00 PM	#15
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i'm going with stamped concrete. found some the wife really likes. Got the hard stuff behind us today. started about 9am. tore out the old fence, loaded it up on the trailer, the old holes worked out for us so we didnt have to auger new holes. took lunch at 11:30 at noon we drove the old wood to a friends burning pile and unloaded it. went to lowes and picked up concrete mix, 4x4x8 lumber and other odds and ends (the person helping us had no idea what a "four by four" was.) got all of the posts cemented into the ground and level finished up by excavating the patio area, probably would have gotten further but we just ran out of daylight. it has really been an all day project. tomorrow we will finish the 5 or 6 square feet of the excavating and get it leveled and put down the stone patio. then take lunch and head to town to get the remaining lumber. once we get it home we will measure, measure again and cut and install. we are thinking tomorrow should be a lot faster than today. the really tough part is always tearing it down, hauling it off, and cementing new posts simply because there is so much heavy lifting. the easier part tends to be putting up the smaller bits of wood. cant wait to be done. time for a dozen half shell oysters, cold beer and dinner __________________