Jobless benefits do more spurs more recovery than tax breaks for the rich

[Torvald Von Mansee]

http://www.slate.com/id/2276473/

Oops...

It should be "does more to spur recovery"

All fine and good if Americans are willing to accept the European model of perpetual greater than +10% unemployment. Because that is the model on which this article is based.

When the economy comes back we won't need some Obama agency to tell us.

[August]

What a load of BS. From where I sit, extending unemployment benefits doesn't spur recovery, if anything it spurs laziness.

I see way too many of our students who, although they can easily get a job with the skills they have learned in our trade school, don't bother looking because they are still sucking from the government teat.

"Why work when you can get a paycheck for free?", seems to be their reasoning. Now that the government is talking about ending the free ride they are coming out of the woodwork demanding placement assistance.

[XabbaRus]

Really UK unemployment has been perpetually under 10% and yet you in teh past have criticised the UK for its system of benefits.

[mookiemookie]

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's, has found that $1 in unemployment benefits generates $1.61 in economic activity. (That's the second most-stimulative form of government spending, behind food stamps.) A dollar in tax cuts—not just to the rich, but to everyone—generates about 32 cents.

I predict that every post railing against extending unemployment benefits will ignore this data and offer up nothing but rhetoric and ideology.

But facts are facts, and there it is in black and white. Extending unemployment benefits is indeed more stimulative than tax cuts. Discussion over.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I predict that every post railing against extending unemployment benefits will ignore this data and offer up nothing but rhetoric and ideology.

But facts are facts, and there it is in black and white. Extending unemployment benefits is indeed more stimulative than tax cuts. Discussion over.

Can you cite some reputable, non partisan sources?

On a personal rant regarding tax breaks for the rich vs the poor.... I wish "trickle down" worked. I really do. But i don't think it does. I'm starting to think money only trickles up, not the other way around. Just my opinion, based on no sources but my own observation of daily life.

[yubba]

Stimulus didn't work, printing money out of thin air to help the jobless isn't going to help, only when the government decides it is going too quite these anti business policies, then we should see some improvement, lefty Dems still don't get it. Rush, said that the fed sent 3 trillion dollars too bailout UK banks, so why are we bailing Europe out?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Can you cite some reputable, non partisan sources?

I just did. Moody's is a reputable non-partisan source.

Moody's Corporation (NYSE: MCO) is the holding company for Moody's Investors Service, a Credit rating agency which performs international financial research and analysis on commercial and government entities. The company also ranks the credit-worthiness of borrowers using a standardized ratings scale. The company has a 40% share in the world credit rating market, as does its main rival, Standard & Poor's.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by yubba

Stimulus didn't work, printing money out of thin air to help the jobless isn't going to help, only when the government decides it is going too quite these anti business policies, then we should see some improvement, lefty Dems still don't get it. Rush, said that the fed sent 3 trillion dollars too bailout UK banks, so why are we bailing Europe out?

...

You take something Rush Limbaugh says at face value? Really???

[Catfish]

Hello,
the only point the article makes clear is that the republicans have no easy recipe of what to do against the jobless situation either.

In Germany the govenment belies the population with statistics of how much people suddenly get a job, and that less than 10 percent would be jobless, to make the government look better and justify its decisions. Reality lies by roughly 22 to 28 percent jobless changing in the course of the year, and every 3rd being poor in comparison to international (western) standards.

They just do not count people over 40 years of age as "jobless", because those will not get a job at all anymore (so, out of the statistics). They sort out female workers and people younger than 25 (assuming all being in any kind of education, apprenticeship or young mothers being pregnant), and especially people who are in (government-controlled) training measures, which they are forced to perform (also out of the jobless statistics). Not that they will get a job after this measure, but sure there is another training measure waiting for them.

It is as well not so that people do not want to work and earn money to buy them nice things like cars, houses or iPhones. Or does anyone think people can afford such brands by getting social help ? They need a perspective, and given one they will work like everybody else, except the usual 2 percent of lazy idiots.

Not to denigrate republicans or the current government, but the problems lie elsewhere:

- We have computers which do a lot of automatic work and led to masses of people having to leave their job never to get something similar again, from banks to railroads to oil industry and whatnot.

- We have computer-controlled CNC machines for machinery and automotive production, only a prgrammer with some metal-working background is needed with those automatized "transfer belts" doing the job of at least 50 workers each. Electronics are not manufactured here, indeed just this word describes the situation.
(Besides there are meanwhile few who would be willing here to work in a factory with the standards of 1960, like in the good old Detroit days, or Wolfsburg (VW) or Stuttgart (Mercedes-Benz) in Gemany - not that there would still be any jobs like that.)

- "We" (western countries) have transferred all "minor" jobs (for less skilled work) to abroad; e.g. iPhone, Computers, cars and machinery is assembled in China for 16 (Dollar) cents an hour (but wait they got a doubled loan raise to 32 Dollar cents recently !)
Regarding the US just of all lots of Computers are being built close to the US border, in northern Mexico, and then imported. But they are US companies who do just that to produce cheaper than they would be able to in the US, to survice. Similar things happen all around the world in all countries, it is called globalization.
(If you ever wondered how an electric water boiler can be produced, assembled and shipped to Europe or the US for less than 3 dollars final sale ..)

Problem is the national market and their companies cannot internally compete against each other anymore, as long as there are price-dumping (for us) countries like India and China, so companies have to go there themselves. As soon as the international loan or productions standards have been ballanced or equalled worldwide, like they finally had in the national "micro-economic" systems, there will be no more country to go to produce cheaper (well maybe there is Mars, then), but only then will they think about the general mess and change something.

Companies and governments are far too much involved in getting out instant profits, few look farther ahead - to be honest smaller companies just cannot compete and choose to go to China or wherever.


Fact is society is changing, but western govenments and industry still behave like in the 19th and 20ieth century. As soon as politicians with a broader view appear they are either bashed or just killed, for their unconvenient views.
If governments do just that why don't we vote for our industrial leaders directly, and skip superfluous politicians ?

Greetings,
Catfish

All fine and good if Americans are willing to accept the European model of perpetual greater than +10% unemployment

Do you have to go out of your way to demonstrate your ignorance quite so often?

Really UK unemployment has been perpetually under 10% and yet you in teh past have criticised the UK for its system of benefits.

Wasn't it Thatcher who abandoned the principle of aiming for full emloyment in the UK?
Surely Third Man should be supporting that idealism even though it flies in the face of his claims...then again the claims he made were clearly nonsense anyway

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by August

What a load of BS. From where I sit, extending unemployment benefits doesn't spur recovery, if anything it spurs laziness.

I see way too many of our students who, although they can easily get a job with the skills they have learned in our trade school, don't bother looking because they are still sucking from the government teat.

"Why work when you can get a paycheck for free?", seems to be their reasoning. Now that the government is talking about ending the free ride they are coming out of the woodwork demanding placement assistance.

Full time students aren't allowed to draw, part time may get some if they've had previous unemployment. You have to have a recent pay quarter to draw.

Actually unemployment is cheaper to pay than all the social programs people out of work go to.

Course as an employer I'm amazed at how easily they give these benefits. I've fired people for failing drug test, not showing up to work for weeks, ect...and even if I fight their claim, they always win benefits...Then you see them working on the side while drawing.

I had one guy drive a van through a garage door, hit a benz, did about 20K in total damage, failed a drug test, fired and still got benefits.

[August]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Full time students aren't allowed to draw, part time may get some if they've had previous unemployment. You have to have a recent pay quarter to draw.

Maybe the laws are different in your area but here well over 3/4ths of my present class are drawing unemployment benefits.

Actually unemployment is cheaper to pay than all the social programs people out of work go to.

In addition to regular benefits the government is paying for their tuition as well. In out little school alone i'd bet at least 200 students get this deal.

Course as an employer I'm amazed at how easily they give these benefits. I've fired people for failing drug test, not showing up to work for weeks, ect...and even if I fight their claim, they always win benefits...Then you see them working on the side while drawing.

I had one guy drive a van through a garage door, hit a benz, did about 20K in total damage, failed a drug test, fired and still got benefits.

Here's where we can agree. Employers tell me it takes a literal mountain of paperwork to deny someone benefits. It's so difficult they often just bite the bullet and pay benefits to people who they should have been able to fire outright.

[SteamWake]

This is proof beyond doubt that the left desires the euro style socalisim and that Pelosi is loosing her sanity.

[AVGWarhawk]

SO TELL ME. WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

Do we continuously hand out cash? There will be no incentive to stop watching Oprah and get off the coach applying for jobs.