What is SH4 still missing.

[Armistead]

When SH5 came out, the life of SH4 was in doubt, however, it's actually thrived with recent mods.

The game just gets better, still not the perfect game, but a great game.
What else would you like to see added? I won't mention more ships, because they're working on the new JP traffic mod, ship skins, ect..will be a great mod.

One thing I hate is TF speed. I've seldomed run into a TF that I couldn't overcome, although some do hit 20kts or more. We shouldn't be able to sink capital ships at will because of slow speed. I would love to see TF hit realistic speeds so attacking them would really be a run. I'll never forget chasing the Santa Cruz TF going 19 kts. I was behind it, but with it zigging over about 3 days I finally got around it. The majority of large TF go between 14-17kts...very unrealistic.

Night surface attack ability. Under the right conditions, light fog, no moon or against a black sky, be nice to get within decent attack range..

[Diopos]

TFs operate with fuel efficiency in mind, too and as permitted by their mission/ojective etc. More "variable" TFs (speedwise) sounds OK though...

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[tater]

DD endurance drops precipitously with speed. Larger ships can steam at higher speeds for longer periods.

In addition, while TFs might have sometimes steamed faster, they would have used complex ZZ patterns, which would have slowed their rate of advance.

[Sailor Steve]

Which is why ship-to-ship refueling was used. Standard cruise speed for all warships in World War Two was 15 knots.

[tater]

Yep. Underway replenishment was actually new to the IJN just before the start of the war.

[Armistead]

I think it would be better to give them unlimited fuel to mimmick being refueled at sea rather than go at slower speeds. Certainly a better zig pattern would be a nice addition other than the little zig they do when noticed, even then they usually slow down. I like the better zig pattern Duc included with TMO, but still not enough.

In about 90% of the books I've read most capital ships were missed due to speed. You only find a few times where subs were able to do end arounds.

[tater]

Real ZZ patterns are pretty much impossible. I made some using RL patterns, and more than a few crashes the editor since each route is 10s of thousands of waypoints.

BTW, if you think 14-17 is too slow, what is the basis for that? Do you have TROM data that suggests far faster speeds?

[WernherVonTrapp]

Captain Tameichi Hara:
an excerpt from Japanese Destroyer Captain (Pg. 45) speaking of a TF assembly immediately prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks:
"After giving up the chase of the submarine, I turned around and joined the other ships. Presently we were joined by the carrier Ryujo, with two heavy cruisers and two destroyers out of Palau. The 12-ship task force assembled in a ring formation, boosted speed to 18 knots, headed straight to the west. We were soon out on the wide ocean, out of sight of all land, and even of other ships. From time to time a school of dolphins would catch the eye, but aside from them there was only sea and sky."
Previous to this section, he spoke of sweeping the area with sonar at 12 knots to guard against a sub radioing their ship movements. I don't know about unlimited fuel but, I've already seen TFs travelling at many different speeds, split about evenly between 12 and 22 knots (RFB/RSRDC).

[Armistead]

Would be interesting to know how the game programs speed for different legs. Reading a book on Midway and mentioned how they left port at 12kts, but sped up to 24kts exiting the Bungo, concerned over US submarines. I think I read the crusing speed of the Shokaku was 18kts for about 9700nms.

I think the bigger failure of the game is TF usually slow down once spotted, when they should speed up to antisubmarine speed. Just studying the different Midway TF, speed changed from 14 to 25kts, the day of battle.

[tater]

You set them in the mission editor to whatever you like (legs of a trip).

[Armistead]

I think that was a given, just that if fuel is limited, I assume that is the reason the legs are slower. Maybe Lurker set different speeds for different legs of some of the major TF's, just seems in game they remain steady.

I think Duc increased some speeds in his traffic redo with TMO. I did run into faster convoys and TF.

The bigger issue is why do TF slow down when attacked or a sub is spotted, seems they would speed up

[tater]

No, the speeds were probably set to the actual rate of advance since his TFs and convoys leave at the right times, and arrive at the right times.

Set them at higher speeds, and they will arrive too soon. The only way around this is to then have more ZZs. In scripted groups in the editor, you can actually display the travel times. But this does not happen with "random" groups, even when the arrival time of the group is set to the minute. When I was working on this (just to eyeball rate of advance of ZZing groups) I made "scripted" units with the same ZZ code in the automated mission editor, then looked at the arrival time for various speeds. This would have been a stunning amount of work for RSRDC... an impossible amount of work, frankly.

What any good game would really need would be:

Organic zig zag support. Meaning that there should be a text file with various ZZ patterns, and ships can then do those as a waypoint parameter.

The editor should show total travel time, and Rate of Advance for groups to aid the mission creator.

If you wanted to mess with this, you'd need to up the speeds, then alter the routes to use up the saved time (some ships put into port, then might leave the next day, so arriving to the minute is required). You'll need to then make sure you didn't screw up the delay times (the editor resets them to 60 minutes automatically, so the last thing you have to do is hand edit them on the text file).

[Armistead]

Do you know what triggers the slow downs when you attack a TF? I assume it's in connection with the zigs starting.

Have little modding skills, but wondered what triggers how ships react when attacked. Many times the ships will take off in different directions, circle, ect.. Usually convoys do this. TF just seem to slow down and start zigging. If something triggers a slow down from the set leg speed, seems like you could trigger a speed increase instead for a period of time.

Course different groups react different when attacked and strange things can happen. Usually they will go back into formation and speed up some, but remain zigging why in your contact zone.

Maybe there is an option here, instead of playing with speeds, ect..

[Bubblehead1980]

SH 4 is still great esp with superb mods like TMO and RFB and the many smaller mods like vickers interior overhauls, the 3D TDC.

My two biggest pet peeves right now are the effectiveness of IJN radar(in RL it well sucked) and the visual sensors that prevent you from performing night surface attacks as skippers like O Kane did.Would be great to be able to get inside a convoy at night on surface and attack.At least be able to safely get within 2000 yards at night on a convoy, rarely can I do this.Usually have to shoot from 2500-3000, kind of annoying.

[Bubblehead1980]

SH 4 is still great esp with superb mods like TMO and RFB and the many smaller mods like vickers interior overhauls, the 3D TDC.

My two biggest pet peeves right now are the effectiveness of IJN radar(in RL it well sucked) so in the game you cant attack a convoy with a radar equipped escort on surface where in RL they did, and often. and the visual sensors that prevent you from performing night surface attacks as skippers like O Kane did.Would be great to be able to get inside a convoy at night on surface and attack.At least be able to safely get within 2000 yards at night on a convoy, rarely can I do this.Usually have to shoot from 2500-3000, kind of annoying