Gonna have to learn my history..

Armistead · 09-17-10, 10:57 PM

I transfer to Pearl for a new boat in time for the battle of Midway. Couldn't find the JP fleet this time, so I haul arse to where I think it will be on June 6. About 350 WSW of Midway, I get a contact...well lag, so check sonar and whoaaa. I have contacts and cams off this patrol.

I spend some time until I can make out some ships, can't ID..through the fog I make out a carrier headed east about 14nm's away. Spend a good hour until I ID a DD....Somers DD....Crap.

The carrier was a Wasp class...So which US carrier went chasing the JP fleet that far. I guess it's possible as I know they sent planes after what they thought was a BB headed to Wake day after Midway battle.

Should've known better, but don't remember the carriers chasing them that far.

WernherVonTrapp · 09-18-10, 01:08 AM

I think (off the cuff), the IJN TF approached Midway from the NW while the America carriers were stationed to the NE. Darn, where's my book?

Diopos · 09-18-10, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

I think (off the cuff), the IJN TF approached Midway from the NW while the America carriers were stationed to the NE. Darn, where's my book?

I think so too ... where is MY book?

,

tater · 09-18-10, 08:56 AM

There is not a proper model for Yorktown class.

Yeah, the Kido Butai comes from the NW, and the USN ambushed from the NE.

Sailor Steve · 09-18-10, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

So which US carrier went chasing the JP fleet that far.

The United States only had three carriers in the Pacific at that time, and all three were involved in the Battle of Midway. It doesn't matter which one you followed. If the battle is properly scripted, it's on its way there.

tater · 09-18-10, 09:33 AM

There are huge limitations to what is possible with the mission editor WRT battles like this. There is no way to remove ships from groups except by sinking them with enemy units. Such sinkings only exist if a player is within render range—if not, they never happen.

So if there is a group with 4 jap CVs, and the group heads back to the barn, you'll see the 4 CVs that should have been sunk.

Armistead · 09-18-10, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The United States only had three carriers in the Pacific at that time, and all three were involved in the Battle of Midway. It doesn't matter which one you followed. If the battle is properly scripted, it's on its way there.

I saw my mistake, I said ESE, meant WSW towards Wake.

Actually referring to history, obvious it had to be the Enterprise or Hornet, but saw only one, but many sonar contacts all over the place.

Seems a Tambor spotted JP's retreating, but can't remember if it was Yamato's group or left over's from the carrier group.

I guess the US carriers could've made it almost 400nms WSW by the 6th.

tater · 09-18-10, 11:14 AM

The US forces were pursuing the retiring van of the invasion force I think.

John Channing · 09-18-10, 11:59 AM

As I recall after the loss of the Yorktown Spruance decided that pursuit of the remaining forces was too dangerous and retired back to Pearl. He was subjected to much criticism afterwards for ths decision, but post war analysis decided that it was the correct move.

JCC

Armistead · 09-18-10, 02:52 PM

I believe there were 3 different groups that went at Midway, main carrier group, Yamato's BB force and the Midway invasion force.

I've yet to attack the Midway invasion group if it's in RSRD. I know it left from Saipan and Gaum. Bet Lurker has it leaving there, so might be a good place to sit for someone if they search the date.

I've also never went after the Aleutians invasion group with the smaller carrires.

Gonna use my save and head to the Aleutians.

No, I never look in the ME.....have the fun is finding them based on history, cheats enough.

Maybe someone knows. At Midway this group of US planes is neading WNW. Since planes attack fairly historically and this is an attack group, would they be heading towards the jap fleet? Done the battle, but never watched US planes attack, but have seen other big battles where the planes showed up at the correct time.

tater · 09-18-10, 06:34 PM

Yes. Funny, a sub following the planes would be exactly the opposite of what really happened.

In RL, Nautilus was detected by jap destroyers, and was forced to pull the plug. The DDs got separated from the Kido Butai, and then raced back to the carriers at high speed. DDs making high speed were detected by lost SBDs who decided they must be heading back to the fleet... Not that long afterwards, the Kido Butai was wiped out.

tater · 09-18-10, 06:39 PM

The biggest problem with SH4 CV groups is that they are FAR too packed together. The game forces a max spacing of 2000 meters instead of the actual 7000 used by the IJN. As a result, it's way too easy to pick off more than one.

Armistead · 09-18-10, 09:52 PM

Didn't find nothing.....but the US TF again...on the 6th, this time NW...that group really got around.

I understand about the limitations, but that spacing obvious doesn't include escorts. Explain more. Could one not space smaller escorts or other ships in between capital ships so you could get a bigger spread. Seems a few TF are like this in RSRD, the Philippine Sea TF is spread out well, but may be my imagination.

tater · 09-18-10, 10:08 PM

2000m is the cut off. I cannot remember if we hand-edit tested beyond that back in the day.

By June 6, the IJN forces will be quite far away. The CV groups to the NW. Even on June 5th they were over 200nm NW.

09-17-10, 10:57 PM	#1
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Gonna have to learn my history.. I transfer to Pearl for a new boat in time for the battle of Midway. Couldn't find the JP fleet this time, so I haul arse to where I think it will be on June 6. About 350 WSW of Midway, I get a contact...well lag, so check sonar and whoaaa. I have contacts and cams off this patrol. I spend some time until I can make out some ships, can't ID..through the fog I make out a carrier headed east about 14nm's away. Spend a good hour until I ID a DD....Somers DD....Crap. The carrier was a Wasp class...So which US carrier went chasing the JP fleet that far. I guess it's possible as I know they sent planes after what they thought was a BB headed to Wake day after Midway battle. Should've known better, but don't remember the carriers chasing them that far. Last edited by Armistead; 09-18-10 at 10:44 AM.

09-18-10, 01:08 AM	#2
WernherVonTrapp Admiral Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Now, alot farther from NYC. Posts: 2,228 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	I think (off the cuff), the IJN TF approached Midway from the NW while the America carriers were stationed to the NE. Darn, where's my book? __________________ "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." -Miyamoto Musashi ------------------------------------------------------- "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate

09-18-10, 02:52 PM	#10
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I believe there were 3 different groups that went at Midway, main carrier group, Yamato's BB force and the Midway invasion force. I've yet to attack the Midway invasion group if it's in RSRD. I know it left from Saipan and Gaum. Bet Lurker has it leaving there, so might be a good place to sit for someone if they search the date. I've also never went after the Aleutians invasion group with the smaller carrires. Gonna use my save and head to the Aleutians. No, I never look in the ME.....have the fun is finding them based on history, cheats enough. Maybe someone knows. At Midway this group of US planes is neading WNW. Since planes attack fairly historically and this is an attack group, would they be heading towards the jap fleet? Done the battle, but never watched US planes attack, but have seen other big battles where the planes showed up at the correct time. Last edited by Armistead; 09-18-10 at 04:16 PM.

09-18-10, 08:56 AM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	There is not a proper model for Yorktown class. Yeah, the Kido Butai comes from the NW, and the USN ambushed from the NE.

09-18-10, 09:33 AM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	There are huge limitations to what is possible with the mission editor WRT battles like this. There is no way to remove ships from groups except by sinking them with enemy units. Such sinkings only exist if a player is within render range—if not, they never happen. So if there is a group with 4 jap CVs, and the group heads back to the barn, you'll see the 4 CVs that should have been sunk.

09-18-10, 11:14 AM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The US forces were pursuing the retiring van of the invasion force I think.

09-18-10, 11:59 AM	#9
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 163 Uploads: 5	As I recall after the loss of the Yorktown Spruance decided that pursuit of the remaining forces was too dangerous and retired back to Pearl. He was subjected to much criticism afterwards for ths decision, but post war analysis decided that it was the correct move. JCC

09-18-10, 06:34 PM	#11
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yes. Funny, a sub following the planes would be exactly the opposite of what really happened. In RL, Nautilus was detected by jap destroyers, and was forced to pull the plug. The DDs got separated from the Kido Butai, and then raced back to the carriers at high speed. DDs making high speed were detected by lost SBDs who decided they must be heading back to the fleet... Not that long afterwards, the Kido Butai was wiped out.

09-18-10, 06:39 PM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The biggest problem with SH4 CV groups is that they are FAR too packed together. The game forces a max spacing of 2000 meters instead of the actual 7000 used by the IJN. As a result, it's way too easy to pick off more than one.

09-18-10, 09:52 PM	#13
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Didn't find nothing.....but the US TF again...on the 6th, this time NW...that group really got around. I understand about the limitations, but that spacing obvious doesn't include escorts. Explain more. Could one not space smaller escorts or other ships in between capital ships so you could get a bigger spread. Seems a few TF are like this in RSRD, the Philippine Sea TF is spread out well, but may be my imagination.

09-18-10, 10:08 PM	#14
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	2000m is the cut off. I cannot remember if we hand-edit tested beyond that back in the day. By June 6, the IJN forces will be quite far away. The CV groups to the NW. Even on June 5th they were over 200nm NW.