Question: How do you nail a zig zagger ?

Blacklight · 08-19-10, 01:57 PM

Okay. I've been playing SHIII for years now and one technique has always eluded me. What's the proper technique for nailing one of those pesky zig-zagging targets. I've only succeeded in pegging them when they're going in straight lines.

frau kaleun · 08-19-10, 02:34 PM

I think I've only had any luck doing this by getting very close (submerged) and using a magnetic fuse on an eel set to run at maximum speed. And then I try to be coming in perpendicular to the ship's general course, i.e. the more or less straight line across which she is zigging and zagging. And then I try to fire when she's starting to make a 'zig' towards me rather than in the other direction.

I don't know if that's the "proper" way to do it, but I seem to remember it working. Could've just been luck.

What I prefer to do if I can is just submerge, lower my scope, and continue to run parallel to her general course, staying as far ahead of her as I can while keeping within easy range of setting up a good shot once she stops zigzagging. Which they usually seem to do eventually.

Of course if the ship is fast enough that I can't stay with her submerged, I'll work my way out of good visual range and then resurface and try to run parallel to her general course and overtake her again without getting close enough to be spotted, and then move in for the kill again (submerged if necessary).

smilinicon · 08-19-10, 05:16 PM

I wait until they stop zigging. Fight the fight on your terms, not theirs.

frau kaleun · 08-19-10, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilinicon

I wait until they stop zigging. Fight the fight on your terms, not theirs.

Yeah, definitely my preference. And they do seem to stop zigzagging and go back on a straight course if you stay submerged long enough.

It just depends on whether or not I think I'll get the chance to wait that long, given the location and the other ship's speed. If it looks like I'd have to get out of visual range and get ahead of her again on the surface, and this means getting myself deep into the range of Allied air cover or closer to a heavily patrolled area than I'd like... eh, I'd just as soon take my chances with a magnetic fuse and a fast eel at really close range.

Jimbuna · 08-20-10, 05:35 AM

You could try to establish they're mean course and make a judgement/prediction on the change points occuring ie zigging and zagging.

One tip.....if at all possible, set for magnetic because of the acute AOB involved if you are slightly out on your guesstimate.

bookworm_020 · 08-20-10, 06:02 AM

Also aiming towards the stern helps, if they make a sudden change you still have a better chance of a hit.

desirableroasted · 08-20-10, 08:00 AM

A magnetic at short range from the front is my way... works pretty well.

Or, since they zig-zag rhythmically, mark your chart whenever they are parallel to their true course and figure out the frequency... then go up the path a little and wait for a 90 AOB impact shot. Even if they see you sitting there (not advised with armed merchants!), they won't deviate from their zig-zag. Get close in (400-700m), use a fast torp, and even if your eyeballing is a little off, it won't matter.

If they are zig-zagging, you can just assume they have radioed for help. So there's little to be gained from being stealthy and careful, and much time to be gained from just whanging them one.

sharkbit · 08-20-10, 08:56 AM

As jimbuna pointed out, even when zigging, they stay on their mean course. If you are in front of them, you can still set up a normal approach and get ahead and perpendicular to their course(ideally).
The only difference now is their speed over their mean course is slower, so you need to set target speed a knot or two slower(maybe more-I've never really tracked it) to compensate.
Like others have said, set your eels for a under keel magnetic shot. Probably a key point against a zigging target.

I hate shooting at zigging targets as well and have not really tried out the above technique, so I may be blowing smoke out my butt.

Usually the target is zigging because I missed already or he spotted me and I'm out of position to try again. Then, I usually end around again and get into position. By then the target has stopped zigging.

In desperation, I have tried a "Up the Kilt" shot with a AOB of 180 with mixed results. Usually ends up wasting too many eels though. Patience is key, grasshopper(like so many other aspects of the hunt).

Alpha Von Burg · 08-20-10, 09:29 AM

If you had an acoustic homming torpedo, this shouldn't be a problem

.

I'm just saying...

timmy41 · 08-20-10, 10:09 AM

math!

08-20-10, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmy41

math!

The German language is full of enough insults to take down any vessel at range. No need for your mystical mathematics here, sir.

derrinurban · 08-20-10, 11:33 AM

I usually use impacts at close range. I set up from the TDC screen rather than the peri. Seems like cheating a bit tho. I lock on and just look at the run time to target and angle of torpedo impact. If you are a ways ahead of the target and perpendicular to his original course, you can judge the time it takes for him to make the course changes and how far off the centerline he is straying.

Then i try to judge when I would be getting close to a 90 deg impact after the run time. This is based on which way he is zig-zagging, it can be either side of 0 deg. Quickly switch to periscope, adjust for sweet spot and fire.

After a couple of times it gets pretty easy and reliable.

Jimbuna · 08-20-10, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha Von Burg

If you had an acoustic homming torpedo, this shouldn't be a problem

.

I'm just saying...

Then you usually need a target travelling at 12 knots or faster...not many merchantmen achieve that ingame.

desirableroasted · 08-20-10, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Then you usually need a target travelling at 12 knots or faster...not many merchantmen achieve that ingame.

Not that I am unhappy that a shot-at-and-missed ammunition ship placidly continues to steam at 6 knts, albeit with some zig-zagging, to give me another chance, but does anyone know why the AI ships were not coded to go to full throttle, put the helm over hard, and make life difficult for Bernard-burdened captains?

frau kaleun · 08-20-10, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

Not that I am unhappy that a shot-at-and-missed ammunition ship placidly continues to steam at 6 knts, albeit with some zig-zagging, to give me another chance, but does anyone know why the AI ships were not coded to go to full throttle, put the helm over hard, and make life difficult for Bernard-burdened captains?

I would assume that adopting a zigzagging course at any speed was considered safer than just doing a hard turn and taking off in another straight line in some other direction. I mean, if an eel's in the water and they see it coming, hard over to avoid if possible... but I'm thinking the zigzagging was meant to make it that much harder for a uboat to set up a really good shot in the first place and thus increase the likelihood of the calculations being off if they tried it.

08-19-10, 01:57 PM	#1
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	Question: How do you nail a zig zagger ? Okay. I've been playing SHIII for years now and one technique has always eluded me. What's the proper technique for nailing one of those pesky zig-zagging targets. I've only succeeded in pegging them when they're going in straight lines. __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

08-20-10, 05:35 AM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	You could try to establish they're mean course and make a judgement/prediction on the change points occuring ie zigging and zagging. One tip.....if at all possible, set for magnetic because of the acute AOB involved if you are slightly out on your guesstimate. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-20-10, 06:02 AM	#6
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Also aiming towards the stern helps, if they make a sudden change you still have a better chance of a hit. __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

08-20-10, 08:00 AM	#7
desirableroasted Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: In the mountains, now. On the edge of the sea before. Posts: 933 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	A magnetic at short range from the front is my way... works pretty well. Or, since they zig-zag rhythmically, mark your chart whenever they are parallel to their true course and figure out the frequency... then go up the path a little and wait for a 90 AOB impact shot. Even if they see you sitting there (not advised with armed merchants!), they won't deviate from their zig-zag. Get close in (400-700m), use a fast torp, and even if your eyeballing is a little off, it won't matter. If they are zig-zagging, you can just assume they have radioed for help. So there's little to be gained from being stealthy and careful, and much time to be gained from just whanging them one. __________________ "Well, now, that's true... the IXC is a bit of a chick magnet..but you really can't beat the VIIB for off-road fun."

08-20-10, 08:56 AM	#8
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	As jimbuna pointed out, even when zigging, they stay on their mean course. If you are in front of them, you can still set up a normal approach and get ahead and perpendicular to their course(ideally). The only difference now is their speed over their mean course is slower, so you need to set target speed a knot or two slower(maybe more-I've never really tracked it) to compensate. Like others have said, set your eels for a under keel magnetic shot. Probably a key point against a zigging target. I hate shooting at zigging targets as well and have not really tried out the above technique, so I may be blowing smoke out my butt. Usually the target is zigging because I missed already or he spotted me and I'm out of position to try again. Then, I usually end around again and get into position. By then the target has stopped zigging. In desperation, I have tried a "Up the Kilt" shot with a AOB of 180 with mixed results. Usually ends up wasting too many eels though. Patience is key, grasshopper(like so many other aspects of the hunt). __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

08-19-10, 02:34 PM	#2
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	I think I've only had any luck doing this by getting very close (submerged) and using a magnetic fuse on an eel set to run at maximum speed. And then I try to be coming in perpendicular to the ship's general course, i.e. the more or less straight line across which she is zigging and zagging. And then I try to fire when she's starting to make a 'zig' towards me rather than in the other direction. I don't know if that's the "proper" way to do it, but I seem to remember it working. Could've just been luck. What I prefer to do if I can is just submerge, lower my scope, and continue to run parallel to her general course, staying as far ahead of her as I can while keeping within easy range of setting up a good shot once she stops zigzagging. Which they usually seem to do eventually. Of course if the ship is fast enough that I can't stay with her submerged, I'll work my way out of good visual range and then resurface and try to run parallel to her general course and overtake her again without getting close enough to be spotted, and then move in for the kill again (submerged if necessary).

08-19-10, 05:16 PM	#3
smilinicon Bosun Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 66 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	I wait until they stop zigging. Fight the fight on your terms, not theirs.

08-20-10, 09:29 AM	#9
Alpha Von Burg Engineer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Unknown Posts: 202 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 0	If you had an acoustic homming torpedo, this shouldn't be a problem . I'm just saying... __________________ -Kapitänleutnant Richard L. Römer

08-20-10, 10:09 AM	#10
timmy41 Weps Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 367 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	math!

08-20-10, 11:33 AM	#12
derrinurban Mate Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 54 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I usually use impacts at close range. I set up from the TDC screen rather than the peri. Seems like cheating a bit tho. I lock on and just look at the run time to target and angle of torpedo impact. If you are a ways ahead of the target and perpendicular to his original course, you can judge the time it takes for him to make the course changes and how far off the centerline he is straying. Then i try to judge when I would be getting close to a 90 deg impact after the run time. This is based on which way he is zig-zagging, it can be either side of 0 deg. Quickly switch to periscope, adjust for sweet spot and fire. After a couple of times it gets pretty easy and reliable.