Credit for sinkings, what's your approach

[asr]

Hi.

I'm in the middle of my first war-time patrol in GWX, and a bit mad about the sinkings.

Had no problem with my first ship right in the coast of calais. Fed the merchant with a torp and finished it with my deck gun. My first 4700 tons, this is gonna be fun, I though.

Then a week of sailing around the brittain just to intercept a ship that ended up being from USA...

Then the bad part. 3 days tracking a convoy, it's zigzaging like mad and running 8 knots. My fuel is below 40%. In my first attack, the escorts detected me before I came close to the merchants, but I had the chance of a quick attack.

Emerged to periscope depth and found a small merchant in front of me. 600m and it was really really small. Can't remember the name. Shot one torp and quickly dive and changed course as I had the escorts in my back. Some seconds later heard the explosion and the cheers of my crew. Some time later while trying to get the escorts off my ass I saw the message "she is sinking!". But I have not received any credits for it. Still 1 sinking and 4700 tn.

Continued chasing the convoy. My second attempt was much better. Entered the convoy at an angle from the front (~45 port) and come to 2000 mts. of them. 16 ships in 4 rows and two badass escorts one front one rear. Now or never. Shot 3 torpedoes, 2 for regular merchants and one for a large merchant. Heard 2 hits. Rotated 180º to escape and used my bow torp on the large merchant again. Another hit. The escorts were dropping depth charges every minute for 2h but had no idea were I was.

Then it comes, I surface, no ships, no wreckage, no reports for sinking

What the hell! How do you approach this? Have to stay on the surface to see if they sink, or fire more torpedoes to be sure? How many torps do I need for a regular cargo? Do I need to actually see them sink to get credits for it?

It is crazy because the escorts will wipe me in a second if I don't dive to +150m instantly. Any closer to the surface and they ping me...

[smilinicon]

your staus report won't update for at least two hours, so you might receive credit after that amount of time. Don't sweat it, if you see the message, you got the kill. Early war is pretty easy, so if you are having trouble at that time, it would help to improve your tactics. Also, explosions do not always mean a hit. If fuel economy is an issue, you are cruising too fast.

sounds like you are being "too agressive"! Be more sneaky, act - don't react.

[raymond6751]

You have premature detonations and torpedoes hitting land sometimes. Also, if a ship is hit once, it often keeps going damaged.

You may have damaged some that just sailed on with the convoy.

[asr]

Originally Posted by smilinicon

your staus report won't update for at least two hours, so you might receive credit after that amount of time. Don't sweat it, if you see the message, you got the kill. Early war is pretty easy, so if you are having trouble at that time, it would help to improve your tactics. Also, explosions do not always mean a hit. If fuel economy is an issue, you are cruising too fast.

sounds like you are being "too agressive"! Be more sneaky, act - don't react.

You are totally right. I'm just a noob comander so I need time and practice to develop proper tactics

Originally Posted by raymond6751

You have premature detonations and torpedoes hitting land sometimes. Also, if a ship is hit once, it often keeps going damaged.

You may have damaged some that just sailed on with the convoy.

So the question remains. Do you shoot 2 torps per target, or stay near surface to confirm hits?

I'm having real problems to stay even near the surface because of the escorts. They almost force me to stay below 150 as I said. How do you manage that? There is also the pinging. I try to present the smallest profile of my ship to them but doesn't seem to do much, they easily locate me.

[RConch]

You did not mention what torp setting you used.
If it is early war and you use the magnetic warhead, you may have had several prematures and no hit.
Did your crew cheer when you "hit" your ships?
If not it was not a hit.
Even if the escorts force you deep, not a problem, just hang around until the escorts loose interest, which they will.
Even if you are under deep. the crew will cheer if the ship sinks and it will appear on the map.
Early war, best bet is to use the impact setting.
It is a bit of a learning curve, but practice makes perfect.
Good hunting in the future.

[asr]

Originally Posted by Rconch

You did not mention what torp setting you used.
If it is early war and you use the magnetic warhead, you may have had several prematures and no hit.
Did your crew cheer when you "hit" your ships?
If not it was not a hit.
Even if the escorts force you deep, not a problem, just hang around until the escorts loose interest, which they will.
Even if you are under deep. the crew will cheer if the ship sinks and it will appear on the map.
Early war, best bet is to use the impact setting.
It is a bit of a learning curve, but practice makes perfect.
Good hunting in the future.

I use auto settings for torpedoes
don't know if they are magnetic or what. They are the regular "pre-war" T1 says here. It's 4th october '39 here. How can I tell or enable the magnetic stuff?

Yes, in every of the 3 hits my crew cheered. Right now I launched 4 more torpedoes and heard one hit with cheers and a nice music piece...

I'll go fetch my umbrella, is it raining depth charges over here

[desirableroasted]

When you identify a target through your periscope or UZO, you will be told what sort of ship it is.

When you know that, open up your ship identification book, turn to the merchants (Handelsschiffe or something), find your ship. On that ship's page, you will be told the "draft" of the ship... the depth of her keel.

Then go to the TDC. Click on your preferred torpedo tube, then select Pistol: I for "Impact" or "M" for Magnetic.

Your choice depends on your attack approach.

If you are 75-105 Angle on Bow, then Impact is your best option. Your torpedo depth should be 2 meters LESS than the draft (this will vary a bit from ship to ship, but you will learn over time).

If you are 0-75/105-180 AOB, and the seas are fairly calm, Magnetic is your best option. Here, you want your depth to be about a meter MORE than the draft, so the torpedo slips under the hull and detonates.

Rough seas affect both pistols. Magnetics often explode prematurely in rough seas; it helps to take your shot as close as you can safely manage. Rough seas also mean your target is rising and falling a lot, which means you may need to run your Impacts a little shallower so that they don't run under the ship.

In the game, you will be told that some torpedos have "depth keeping" problems, etc and that magnetic pistols should not be used. Ignore this; it's just for "immersion."

Good hunting!

[asr]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

When you identify a target through your periscope or UZO, you will be told what sort of ship it is.

When you know that, open up your ship identification book, turn to the merchants (Handelsschiffe or something), find your ship. On that ship's page, you will be told the "draft" of the ship... the depth of her keel.

Then go to the TDC. Click on your preferred torpedo tube, then select Pistol: I for "Impact" or "M" for Magnetic.

Your choice depends on your attack approach.

If you are 75-105 Angle on Bow, then Impact is your best option. Your torpedo depth should be 2 meters LESS than the draft (this will vary a bit from ship to ship, but you will learn over time).

If you are 0-75/105-180 AOB, and the seas are fairly calm, Magnetic is your best option. Here, you want your depth to be about a meter MORE than the draft, so the torpedo slips under the hull and detonates.

Rough seas affect both pistols. Magnetics often explode prematurely in rough seas; it helps to take your shot as close as you can safely manage. Rough seas also mean your target is rising and falling a lot, which means you may need to run your Impacts a little shallower so that they don't run under the ship.

In the game, you will be told that some torpedos have "depth keeping" problems, etc and that magnetic pistols should not be used. Ignore this; it's just for "immersion."

Good hunting!

Thanks! I will put your advice into practice ASAP.

Finally I took the bruteforce approach and shot 4 torps at the same time at that damn large merchant. 2 impacts and 10k tns prize

[asr]

also I found the large merchant that ate 2 torps yesterday and didn't sink! it was left behind by the convoy navigating at 3 knots!

Time for a deck gun party!

-----

The bastard had deck guns! In Oct 39!

Decided to get rid of 'em with my bow torpedo. All out of safety for my tripulation

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by asr

Thanks! I will put your advice into practice ASAP.

Finally I took the bruteforce approach and shot 4 torps at the same time at that damn large merchant. 2 impacts and 10k tns prize

We'll order a round at the nightclub!

That'll get the job done, but remember that SH3 is a game of patience above all else. One eel may not sink your target, but a well-placed one will certainly slow it down. And if they slow down to 1 or 0 knts, they will go down.

Right now, I am in my 5th game hour waiting for an Empire freighter to go down... and it will, in another hour or so.

[asr]

Was just doing a last attack to this same convoy. 3 torps left.

At the last moment was detected by an escort who speed up against me. Short my 2 aft torpedoes at the nearest merchant and crash drive.. the escort went literaly over me and damaged my flack and deck guns.

The small merchant managed to avoid the torpedoes, just for hearing two consecutive detonations one minute later. I have just sink another large merchant. 32k tons in 10 hours

[Capt. Morgan]

Just a quick point. If you sink a ship but don't see it sink (either because you are no longer in visual range - which can be quite short at times - or submerged, periscope-down) there will be no mark on the map to indicate the sinking, but you will still get the credit.

If you move too far away (50km IIRC) from your sinking ship, or something else - like bad weather, or a collision - causes it to sink faster, then you won't get credit.

On a semi-related unrelated point, the reason Von Richthofen painted his aircraft red was that WWI german fliers needed a witness to claim a victory. Having the only scarlet plane in the sky greatly increased the number of credits he could claim.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

Just a quick point. If you sink a ship but don't see it sink (either because you are no longer in visual range - which can be quite short at times - or submerged, periscope-down) there will be no mark on the map to indicate the sinking, but you will still get the credit.

If you move too far away (50km IIRC) from your sinking ship, or something else - like bad weather, or a collision - causes it to sink faster, then you won't get credit.

You must be still be in contact range of the ship at the moment when the game considers it to be sunk because of the amount and nature of the damage it has received.

At that moment, if you are in range, one of your crew (I think it's the Navigator) will report that "She's going down!" and you will be credited with the kill.

"In contact range" means close enough for you and your crew to visually confirm that the ship is sinking (if you are surfaced) or close enough for the sinking to be heard on the hydrophones (if you are submerged). You don't have to watch it happen personally, either from the bridge or through the 'scope. But the boat must be close enough for visual or sonar confirmation of the kill.

If you move out of contact range before your crew has given you the "She's going down" message, there is no way for you to confirm the sinking because no one aboard your boat could have seen it or heard it happen. Even if you did enough damage to make the sinking inevitable, you must remain close enough to confirm that the boat is indeed sinking before sailing away.

Bottom line is, once you receive the "She's going down" message, the ship is a confirmed kill and you will get credit for it. You are free to leave the area with another notch on your gun barrel, even if the ship is still on the surface and is taking its good old time about actually going down. You've done enough damage to sink her, and hung around long enough for that fact to be confirmed. That's all you need to do to get the credit.

On a semi-related unrelated point, the reason Von Richthofen painted his aircraft red was that WWI german fliers needed a witness to claim a victory. Having the only scarlet plane in the sky greatly increased the number of credits he could claim.

Kinda the same idea here - someone on your boat must "witness" and confirm the sinking, and report it to you (whether you're watching/hearing it happen with your own eyes/ears or not). That's how you know that the game has credited you with the kill. A kill you don't witness is a kill that didn't happen as far as the game (and your renown score) is concerned.

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

...
Bottom line is, once you receive the "She's going down" message, the ship is a confirmed kill and you will get credit for it. You are free to leave the area with another notch on your gun barrel, even if the ship is still on the surface and is taking its good old time about actually going down. You've done enough damage to sink her, and hung around long enough for that fact to be confirmed. That's all you need to do to get the credit.

... someone on your boat must "witness" and confirm the sinking, and report it to you (whether you're watching/hearing it happen with your own eyes/ears or not). That's how you know that the game has credited you with the kill. A kill you don't witness is a kill that didn't happen as far as the game (and your renown score) is concerned.

I always thought it was a simple matter of distance. SHIII continues to amaze me with what it models.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

I always thought it was a simple matter of distance. SHIII continues to amaze me with what it models.

Well, it sorta is a matter of distance. If you get so far away that you can't confirm the sinking, it never happens because IIRC the game only renders other vessels and their activity when you are within a certain range of them. Once you're outside that range, they cease to exist in terms of the "world" the game created for you to move around in. (Someone please correct me if I've misunderstood how this works.)

Anyway, it's still kind of like real life... there were occasions where a u-boat would make a successful attack on an enemy vessel, assume it was going down, and sail away. They'd enter the sinking in the log and report it to BdU. But then they'd find out later that the ship they thought was destroyed didn't sink at all, because they'd get a report of it showing up in some Allied port. But the game is less forgiving than BdU, it won't let you log or report the kill unless you stuck around long enough to confirm it.

And it is possible to attack a ship and witness it sinking and not be the reason that it sinks - for instance, if the Luftwaffe shows up and starts bombing it. If the damage that results in the sinking isn't caused by you, you won't get credit for it. But I'm not sure if you still get the "She's going down" message in that case.

I know some other players have had kills "stolen" out from under their noses by other Axis forces, so maybe someone else can answer that question?