Manual targeting question

[Whippy]

Hi skippers,

As we all have our own preferences when it comes to realism and targeting technique, I'm not sure if anyone will be able to help me, but let me ask.

I use "full realism" in the SHIV options with the exception of allowing outside views. I also "cheat" by letting my stopwatch calculate target speed for me (with some exceptions)

When entering a target ship's data in the TDC, I find that I can usually enter very confident data with the exception of the targets angle.

There was a trick to calculating this that someone here told me about once but I have forgotten the trick and forum searches are coming up with nothing either.

Everything I have found on the forums is much more difficult than it has to be from what I remember. All I can say about the trick is that it went something like this:

step 1: have the crew report nearest sighting and the man gives you the target's course (yes, another "cheat" lol)

step 2: subtract (or add) your true course from the target's true course and then add (or subtract) 180

step 3: use the number that you get and select the same number off the target's angle "wheel" on the TDC.

Does this method sound at all familiar to anyone? It was a very long time ago when someone gave me this tip and it may have even been for SHIII

I am now able to make some very excellent hits by just eyeballing the angles, but I like to be SURE I am right rather than relying on such an inconsistant method as I currently use.

The TDC target angle computer has numbers around the edge for a reason, I'd like to use them to make my job easier.

[razark]

You enter the bearing and range into the TDC. Once you have entered two bearing/range entries, switch to the speed dial, and click the stopwatch.

The crew will do the calculations on their plot (which they keep hidden from you so you can never ever look at it ), and will tell you the speed and course. Enter the speed, and go to the AoB dial. You can approximate the AoB visually. Once you enter the AoB you guessed, look at the target dial on the left hand side of the screen. The target's AoB will be reflected there, and the outer ring shows the course.

Remember, the crew told you the course when they told you the speed. Fiddle with the AoB until the correct course is shown on the dial.

Keep in mind that the game will calculate the speed and course based on the two range/bearing fixes. If you mess those up, you mess up the speed and course. There's other ways to do it, one of my favorites involves a slide rule. This method is just the way the game is set up to help you simulate actually having a tracking party.

[Whippy]

Thank you, razark. I did play with the AoB dial before to get the numbers to match, and yes eyeballing does work and it works well mostly. I'll mess with it some more this afternoon and see if I can better understand how the trick I remember but don't remember works.

The calculation gave you an exact number to set your AoB dial to from the start so that you did not need to fiddle with it...unless, of course, your target changed course.

If I figure it out again or remember, I'll post the formula here. It was very simple, really...so simple I forgot

[Rockin Robbins]

You have to remember what the angle on the bow is. It has nothing to do with your course, but everything to do with the target's course. That might make the name "angle on the bow" a bit misleading. I find it an unhelpful term. But we didn't make it up and we're stuck with it.

The angle on the bow is nothing more fancy than your bearing from the target! But instead of using zero to 360º, the angle on the bow is measured from zero at the bow of the target to 180 at the stern. Because for any angle on the bow less than 180, there are TWO angles of the same measure, we differentiate between identical 88º angles by 88º starboard and 88º port. You pick starboard or port based on which side of the target you see. If you were German, none of this explanation would be necessary because on a U-Boat all bearings are measured in this way.

So what's the best way to measure angle on the bow? If you want to be strictly historically accurate, the majority of the AoB measurements in the war were done by visual evaluation. Gutted's Solution Solver has a great practice tool for that so that you can learn to see the aspect of the target and estimate the AoB accurately enough to whack 'em between the eyes.

However, I'm a plotting geek and I like to collect all my info from the plot. I take a sighting of range and bearing, with radar if possible and plot the position of the target. Then I wait three minutes and do it again. By connecting the two positions with a line and extending it in the direction of target movement we establish the course of our target. But we can also measure the number of hundred yards between the point and that is the speed in knots. 700 yards equals 7 knots. Put that into the TDC.

The angle on the bow is your bearing from the target. So use the protractor. Click on the target track ahead of the target, again on the middle of the target and a third time on the middle of your submarine. You'll see the angle measurement at the apex of the angle. That's your AoB. Is it starboard or port? If you are looking at the target's starboard side it is starboard. Easy enough? Enter that puppy. Note the course on the outside

Lastly, you need an accurate position with a final sighting of range and bearing. It is vitally important that the range and bearing be input last, after speed and target course/AoB are in the TDC. Entering information out of order will result in misses astern. Send that to the TDC and you're ready to shoot.

You can check your setting by going to the attack map. You will see the position of the target, and also see the x where the torpedo will hit. There is a vector pointing forward from the x. Is the x superimposed on the target? Is the vector pointing in the direction of the target's course? Also displayed is the torpedo run time. Watching the attack screen, does the x remain on the target for the length of that run time? If you have a 3:20 run time and the x stays on top of the target for that length of time, you have a winner for a setup. Take one last position sighting and shoot with confidence!

[Whippy]

I must say, Robbins, that this is the very best explaination of this method I've ever read here...and I've been reading quite a few of them while searching for my easy method

While my easy method is/was much faster, yours is more fun. I am also one to use the plotter a lot. I'm a draftsman by trade so I guess I'm comfortable there. I love finding a convoy on radar and tracking its progress on the charts, planning my approach or deciding if I will be able to get into position in time to meet them for a surprise...or doing similar by visual and sound in the earlier ships. Ahh, I just love this sim

[Whippy]

Pisces! THANKS! This sounds like it could work for what I'm talking about. I MUST be thinking of SHIII when I was using that other method.

Surely the US military would make things as user friendly as possible for these complex machines to facilitate training. Even with good training, you are still talking about 20 year old young men who are learning this stuff and you are also wanting to create a system that is going to be easy to use "in the heat of battle" and while mentally fatuiged too. On top of this, you want a system that is not open to guess work, but is going to be utterly consistant.

[Rockin Robbins]

I love the plot because it validates itself. At every step you can see that your numbers are based on reality and I like that concrete substitution of diagram for trig.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by Whippy

Hi skippers,

As we all have our own preferences when it comes to realism and targeting technique, I'm not sure if anyone will be able to help me, but let me ask.

I use "full realism" in the SHIV options with the exception of allowing outside views. I also "cheat" by letting my stopwatch calculate target speed for me (with some exceptions)

When entering a target ship's data in the TDC, I find that I can usually enter very confident data with the exception of the targets angle.

There was a trick to calculating this that someone here told me about once but I have forgotten the trick and forum searches are coming up with nothing either.

Everything I have found on the forums is much more difficult than it has to be from what I remember. All I can say about the trick is that it went something like this:

step 1: have the crew report nearest sighting and the man gives you the target's course (yes, another "cheat" lol)

step 2: subtract (or add) your true course from the target's true course and then add (or subtract) 180

step 3: use the number that you get and select the same number off the target's angle "wheel" on the TDC.

Does this method sound at all familiar to anyone? It was a very long time ago when someone gave me this tip and it may have even been for SHIII

I am now able to make some very excellent hits by just eyeballing the angles, but I like to be SURE I am right rather than relying on such an inconsistant method as I currently use.

The TDC target angle computer has numbers around the edge for a reason, I'd like to use them to make my job easier.

I don't recognise the steps you describe, but the following mod makes adjusting the TDC dials very easy. Just drag the target course to the right number:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152945