Dr. Laura pulls the plug

[SteamWake]

Long time radio personality Dr. Laura decides 'no more radio' following a recent contriversiy over her use of the N word.

She states "want to regain my first amendment rights".

Dr. Laura the 'shock jock'??

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/...iSZ-&wom=false

ps; Wholy smokes Larry King is still on the air

[frau kaleun]

I assume by "first amendment rights" she's referring to freedom of speech?

She had the freedom of speech and exercised it. IIRC the first amendment doesn't guarantee "freedom" from the consequences of people being offended by what she said or thinking less of her because she said it.

[SteamWake]

As always I am sure there is more to this story than meets the eye. Most likely a falling out between the Dr. and 'management'.

So she is going to take her microphone and go home.

She has only been on the air for 30 some years

Now if we could just find something to bash Kommando on

[ETR3(SS)]

I'll say this, Dr. Laura hit the nail right on the head. It's nothing more than a word and by making it ok for one race to use it in everyday conversation, and not another is racism.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

I'll say this, Dr. Laura hit the nail right on the head. It's nothing more than a word and by making it ok for one race to use it in everyday conversation, and not another is racism.

It's precisely because of racism and its long, ugly history in our society that the word in question is likely to be received as more or less offensive depending on who says it.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

It's precisely because of racism and its long, ugly history in our society that the word in question is likely to be received as more or less offensive depending on who says it.

Absolutely! All the more reason for blacks to treat it as a racist word and to stop using it. How many white people go around calling each other cracker or honky? Very few that I know of. And what happens when a black person calls a white person one of those names? There's no NAAWP up in arms crying racism. Why? Because we don't make nearly as big deal of a deal out of it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

It's precisely because of racism and its long, ugly history in our society that the word in question is likely to be received as more or less offensive depending on who says it.

True. However it you listen to the exchange it was not meant in malice.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

How many white people go around calling each other cracker or honky? Very few that I know of. And what happens when a black person calls a white person one of those names? There's no NAAWP up in arms crying racism. Why? Because we don't make nearly as big deal of a deal out of it.

It's almost like there's a cultural history behind one of these situations and not the other.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

True. However it you listen to the exchange it was not meant in malice.

My understanding of the exchange was that a woman of color called in with concerns about someone in her social circle (presumably a white person) who made a habit of calling her *that word* and that Dr. Laura's response was to downplay the situation by pointing out that black people use that word amongst themselves all the time.

To me that's like me saying some guy I know is constantly calling me a - can I use the "b-word" here? - anyway, it would be like me having concerns about some dude constantly referring to me as "[pejorative word for female person]" and you pointing out that it's not a big deal because you hear some women call each other that "all the time."

But what some women may or may not call each other for whatever reason is, to me, irrelevant. Whether or not I would be offended by another woman calling me that in some undefined context for some undefined reason is irrrelevant. The person I'm dealing with is habitually calling me *that word* only because I happen to be female and for no other reason, as if *that word* is an acceptable all-purpose way to refer to women. It's not. And to continue to call me one just because I have boobs and a vagina is sexist.

And the fact that it's a man saying it would raise the question of his attitudes toward women in general, and towards me because I'm female, because no matter how many steps forward we've taken in terms of equality between the sexes, sexism is not dead and women have to deal with the attitudes and behavior it generates among men on a regular basis in ways that simply do not apply in woman-to-woman interactions.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It's almost like there's a cultural history behind one of these situations and not the other.

Yeah, I can't imagine what that would be. I mean, it's not like there was any longstanding tradition of non-white people being oppressed and discriminated against, which would be the sort of thing that might lead them to see racism as more of a problem than, you know, the people who actually benefitted from it for a few measly centuries.

/sarcasm

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It's almost like there's a cultural history behind one of these situations and not the other.

If there was no cultural history behind one, then we wouldn't have the words that we do.

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Yeah, I can't imagine what that would be. I mean, it's not like there was any longstanding tradition of non-white people being oppressed and discriminated against, which would be the sort of thing that might lead them to see racism as more of a problem than, you know, the people who actually benefitted from it for a few measly centuries.

/sarcasm

That is part of the problem. When someone says slavery today's society automatically assumes white American master, black African slave. Never mind that the Roman Empire traded an estimated total of 100 million European and Mediterranean slaves from the formation of the Empire to its downfall. Let's compare that to US slavery with an estimated 4 million African slaves by 1860. Quite the difference. Now just because there is this large number difference doesn't make slavery any less abhorrent. Slavery was abolished in the United States though.

As a result of slavery being abolished, the Southern landowners who had relied upon slavery were resentful. Which led to a backlash by these landowners against blacks. Racism then ensued on both sides for a number of years. And we all know how the story goes from here. The fact of the matter is this; no one is trying to cover up slavery in the United States. It is taught everyday in every classroom in America as a part of our history. History, as in past. We are all Americans regardless of our skin color, and yet we have this divide because some feel the need to reopen past wounds. Some aim to belittle with words, others to guilt you with history because of your skin color versus theirs.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is you can't have a double standard and expect to make progress. When you can hold yourself to the same standard that you expect of others, then we can move forward as one people.

[Moeceefus]

The word is offensive, but it is just a word. You cant ban a word. You can feel free to use it, just as the person hearing it can feel free to kick the crap out of you. Its one of those use at your own risk words. As far as radio and tv personalities go, they have rules and a responsibility to the public. They cant really cry about freedom of speech when they agree to FCC guidelines. On the topic of slavery, probably all of us had at one point in history, an ancestor who was a slave. How long can we call foul on that? What does something that happened thousands, or even hundreds of years before you were born have to do with your lives today. How long can this be used as an excuse to cry discrimination?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

My understanding of the exchange was that a woman of color called in with concerns about someone in her social circle (presumably a white person) who made a habit of calling her *that word* and that Dr. Laura's response was to downplay the situation by pointing out that black people use that word amongst themselves all the time.

To me that's like me saying some guy I know is constantly calling me a - can I use the "b-word" here? - anyway, it would be like me having concerns about some dude constantly referring to me as "[pejorative word for female person]" and you pointing out that it's not a big deal because you hear some women call each other that "all the time."

But what some women may or may not call each other for whatever reason is, to me, irrelevant. Whether or not I would be offended by another woman calling me that in some undefined context for some undefined reason is irrrelevant. The person I'm dealing with is habitually calling me *that word* only because I happen to be female and for no other reason, as if *that word* is an acceptable all-purpose way to refer to women. It's not. And to continue to call me one just because I have boobs and a vagina is sexist.

And the fact that it's a man saying it would raise the question of his attitudes toward women in general, and towards me because I'm female, because no matter how many steps forward we've taken in terms of equality between the sexes, sexism is not dead and women have to deal with the attitudes and behavior it generates among men on a regular basis in ways that simply do not apply in woman-to-woman interactions.

It was an African American woman who was married to a white male. His friends would tell offensive jokes that were off color for a lack of a better description. Dr. L said she sees comedians on HBO use the word all the time however there is no offense in the audience...just laughter. There is a double standard apparently with the use of this word. But, I believe Dr. L went off in the wrong direction. My first thought is her husband should have stood up for his wife if these jokes were not appropriate. Dr. L should have approached it the same but went off on another route that was wrong in the end. But what do I know...

[SteamWake]

Context is everything.

Alot of pepole disliked Dr. Laura if for no other reason than her success. They found a way to persicute her.

Personally I am saddened to see her just give in but thats where it stands.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

If there was no cultural history behind one, then we wouldn't have the words that we do.

That is part of the problem. When someone says slavery today's society automatically assumes white American master, black African slave. Never mind that the Roman Empire traded an estimated total of 100 million European and Mediterranean slaves from the formation of the Empire to its downfall. Let's compare that to US slavery with an estimated 4 million African slaves by 1860. Quite the difference. Now just because there is this large number difference doesn't make slavery any less abhorrent. Slavery was abolished in the United States though.

As a result of slavery being abolished, the Southern landowners who had relied upon slavery were resentful. Which led to a backlash by these landowners against blacks. Racism then ensued on both sides for a number of years. And we all know how the story goes from here. The fact of the matter is this; no one is trying to cover up slavery in the United States. It is taught everyday in every classroom in America as a part of our history. History, as in past. We are all Americans regardless of our skin color, and yet we have this divide because some feel the need to reopen past wounds. Some aim to belittle with words, others to guilt you with history because of your skin color versus theirs.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is you can't have a double standard and expect to make progress. When you can hold yourself to the same standard that you expect of others, then we can move forward as one people.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to try and blame racism in the US on the abolition of slavery here, when racism was a primary factor in justifying it in the first place.

AFAIK slavery in "ancient times" was not primarily about race or ethnicity. In the US, it most definitely was. A black person was considered inherently inferior to a white person and therefore it was not only "okay" but perfectly "natural" for them to be bought and sold like chattel by any white person who had the means to do so.