German defence cuts...

Skybird · 07-07-10, 07:33 AM

... seem to effect the navy very much:

German media report about internal plans by the defence ministry to save 9.3 billion over the next years.

This would lead to reducing the navy's current 15 frigates (3 classes) by 8 to then 7 frigates, giving up all 10 fast-attack boats, reducing the fleet of helicopters in service by one half to then 22. Of the 10 submarines (4 212s, 6 206s), the 206 have been/are being taken out of service this summer and are being prepared for final decommissioning, leaving four subs in service.

Of active surface combat ships, this then leaves only 5 corvettes beside the frigates. Around 20 minesweepers and around 20 logistic and support units remain in service - for the time being. there are ten naval reconnaissance planes (Orions).

Details in how far plans for building new frigates, corvettes and helicopters are being affected, so far do not get reported. If these see signficant cuts, too, then I really start to worry about certain milizary capacities. Germany existentially depends on naval trade lines. It should contribute a bit more to their security.

Edit: the planned order for 4 new frigates of the type 125 have been cut already, too. I read both 2 and 3 being mentioned.

Further plans to save mony include reduction of order for transport planes, transport helicopters, combat helicopters, Eurofighters, and a reduction of the fleet of Tornados from 185 to 85. Additionally there will be massive cuts in personell strength.

All this may work or not. But it means for sure that we should say farewell to the idea of sending troops to oversea missions of questionable value, but tremendous financial costs. germany's logist capacity for supporting international missions, is traditionally rather weak, and will suffer even more, making such missions depending even more on others. Not good to run a mission under such premises.

Washington will not get its demanded raise in European and German defense spendings. Quite the opposite.

Jimbuna · 07-07-10, 07:39 AM

Ah well, no need for us to build any more escorts...probably no need for us to form convoys in the future

Moeceefus · 07-07-10, 07:52 AM

Schroeder · 07-07-10, 10:09 AM

Well the IDS Tornadoes are 35 years old and pretty worn out. Their role can be taken over by the Eurofighter. I think we will only keep the younger ECRs.
To further reduce our helicopter force sounds like total idiocy to me. We don't even have enough of them right now to support our troops in Afghanistan and often have to rely on foreign help if things get hot. Our gouvernment should finally decide what it wants. A working military that can fight overseas and costs money, or a cheap version that might still be able to perform home defence services but can't be send abroad. They can't have both!

@ Moeceefus
I'm pretty sure someone lost his command for that.

AVGWarhawk · 07-07-10, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Ah well, no need for us to build any more escorts...probably no need for us to form convoys in the future

The irony.....

HunterICX · 07-07-10, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

@ Moeceefus
I'm pretty sure someone lost his command for that.

No kidding

Is it a game to them?

HunterICX

Schroeder · 07-07-10, 11:56 AM

@Hunter
I've never heard of anything like that before. I also don't understand why nothing was done to prevent that from happening. The rammed vessel just stays on course and the ramming one also doesn't do anything to avoid that collision although it seemed manoeuvrable enough to turn back before impact. Really strange.

UnderseaLcpl · 07-07-10, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

I guess that's one way to make an unterseeboot.

Moeceefus · 07-07-10, 12:46 PM

The Capt. indeed, was rightfully canned. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...rmany.internet

And also, the US navy at play... This didn't get much attention as it happened on the same day one of Iowa's turrets exploded killing 47 sailors. Also, a lack of Youtube at the time of course.

Jimbuna · 07-07-10, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

The Capt. indeed, was rightfully canned. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...rmany.internet

And also, the US navy at play... This didn't get much attention as it happened on the same day one of Iowa's turrets exploded killing 47 sailors. Also, a lack of Youtube at the time of course.

The article re the German missile boats colliding looks a bit dated, IIRC the incident took place in June 2007

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=8284.0

07-07-10, 07:33 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,615 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	German defence cuts... ... seem to effect the navy very much: German media report about internal plans by the defence ministry to save 9.3 billion over the next years. This would lead to reducing the navy's current 15 frigates (3 classes) by 8 to then 7 frigates, giving up all 10 fast-attack boats, reducing the fleet of helicopters in service by one half to then 22. Of the 10 submarines (4 212s, 6 206s), the 206 have been/are being taken out of service this summer and are being prepared for final decommissioning, leaving four subs in service. Of active surface combat ships, this then leaves only 5 corvettes beside the frigates. Around 20 minesweepers and around 20 logistic and support units remain in service - for the time being. there are ten naval reconnaissance planes (Orions). Details in how far plans for building new frigates, corvettes and helicopters are being affected, so far do not get reported. If these see signficant cuts, too, then I really start to worry about certain milizary capacities. Germany existentially depends on naval trade lines. It should contribute a bit more to their security. Edit: the planned order for 4 new frigates of the type 125 have been cut already, too. I read both 2 and 3 being mentioned. Further plans to save mony include reduction of order for transport planes, transport helicopters, combat helicopters, Eurofighters, and a reduction of the fleet of Tornados from 185 to 85. Additionally there will be massive cuts in personell strength. All this may work or not. But it means for sure that we should say farewell to the idea of sending troops to oversea missions of questionable value, but tremendous financial costs. germany's logist capacity for supporting international missions, is traditionally rather weak, and will suffer even more, making such missions depending even more on others. Not good to run a mission under such premises. Washington will not get its demanded raise in European and German defense spendings. Quite the opposite. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-07-10, 07:39 AM	#2
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,507 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Ah well, no need for us to build any more escorts...probably no need for us to form convoys in the future __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

07-07-10, 10:09 AM	#4
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Well the IDS Tornadoes are 35 years old and pretty worn out. Their role can be taken over by the Eurofighter. I think we will only keep the younger ECRs. To further reduce our helicopter force sounds like total idiocy to me. We don't even have enough of them right now to support our troops in Afghanistan and often have to rely on foreign help if things get hot. Our gouvernment should finally decide what it wants. A working military that can fight overseas and costs money, or a cheap version that might still be able to perform home defence services but can't be send abroad. They can't have both! @ Moeceefus I'm pretty sure someone lost his command for that. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

07-07-10, 11:56 AM	#7
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Hunter I've never heard of anything like that before. I also don't understand why nothing was done to prevent that from happening. The rammed vessel just stays on course and the ramming one also doesn't do anything to avoid that collision although it seemed manoeuvrable enough to turn back before impact. Really strange. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

07-07-10, 12:46 PM	#9
Moeceefus 中国水兵 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New York Posts: 278 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The Capt. indeed, was rightfully canned. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...rmany.internet And also, the US navy at play... This didn't get much attention as it happened on the same day one of Iowa's turrets exploded killing 47 sailors. Also, a lack of Youtube at the time of course. Last edited by Moeceefus; 07-07-10 at 01:14 PM.

07-07-10, 07:52 AM	#3
Moeceefus 中国水兵 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New York Posts: 278 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0