[CONCEPT] Realistis Renown

schlechter pfennig · 05-19-10, 07:31 PM

I think most of us would agree that the renown system, as it stands, stinks like hedgehogs on your hull. It makes you feel like you're purchasing upgrades rather than trading on your influence (or lack thereof) and, worse, it plays havoc with your promotions. It's not uncommon (for me at least) to get a promotion . . . then get promoted down . . . get a promotion . . . then get promoted down . . . just because I've 'spent' for upgrades and/or a different U-boat.

I was working on a manual way of doing this and in the back of my head I kept muttering, "Boy, wouldn't it be nice if this could be done like SHIII Commander handles things." Soooo . . .

What I was starting to do manually was remove all renown cost for everything. On paper I'd keep two columns of renown: total accumulated, and current available. If I wanted any upgrades, as long as my current available had the sufficient amount, I'd get the upgrade then subtract it from the current available. That way my promotions wouldn't get buggered up.

The concept I have would be an accessory program called 'Realistic Renown' (or something similar). It would be run first, with options to load and run either SH3 Commander or SHIII once you've done upgrading. The problem I have is, to be blunt, my programming skills are a bit rusty . . . as in 20 years out of date rusty. I've also no GUI experience at all. I've looked through the various files and believe I've identified the relevant ones, and know what needs to be done to get this to work, but I don't have the skills to do it myself. I'm more than happy to do grunt-work data entry, etc., but as to the actual programming I'm screwed.

Here is how I envision the basic version to work. There are also two potential enhancements, and I'll get to those afterwards, as well as the potential stumbling blocks I've so far identified.

When you first install 'Realistic Renown' it will ask for the folder location of the SHIII installation you're running, the location of the SHIII folder (in case it isn't in the usual 'My Documents') as well as the SH3 Commander folder should you also be running that (and who doesn't?

).

Once installation is finished it will populate with all your Commanders, past and present. Retired ones, or ones that have been transferred off active patrols, would be flagged as such. If you wanted to start a new career it will indicate that you must first establish a new career and finish your first patrol before you can use 'Realistic Renown'.

Installing 'Realistic Renown' would remove all renown costs for upgrades, U-boats and torpedoes. It would also keep track of total renown and current available. Total renown is just that: total. If you ran three patrols and earned 1,000, then 2,500, then 1,500, your total renown would be 5,000. Total renown would never decrease.

Current renown is what you have available to 'use your influence' and select upgrades, etc., and the 'cost' of using your influence would then be deducted from your current available. Once you started SHIII (or SH3 Commander) the upgrades, etc., would be applied, plus the time required for them be applied as well.

Current renown, unlike total renown, can fluctuate both up and down; down as you 'trade on your influence' and up as you earn that. For instance, say after four patrols your total renown is 5,000, but your current renown is only 1,500 due to your upgrade requests. If your total renown after patrol five is now 6,500, your current available would have increased to 3,000.

If you elect to 'use your influence' you'd advance to a GUI that is identical to the upgrade screen and timeline availability screen in SHIII, showing the same options as they become available and the concurrent 'cost'. If you select an upgrade the cost is deducted from your available renown, the relevant file is altered to provide that upgrade, and the additional time to install is also appended to the relevant file.

It would also show you how many personnel slots are empty, and give you the ability to 'request' skilled officers, warrant officers and seamen for those positions (for a cost) or just take 'pot-luck' for no cost.

So far the potential problem areas I've identified are the following:

1) A player could only upgrade using 'Realistic Renown' after they are back at base and have exited, with the upgrades being applied once they restart. This shouldn't normally be a problem but I'm not sure how SH3 Commander will handle things when you start it up and are told your current Kaluen 'has retired' and you wanted to continue with a new commander, as my understanding is that making any changes will break the continuity.

2) Torpedoes: Towards the latter end of the war certain torpedoes start costing renown. 'Realistic Renown' will have set their 'cost' to zero, which means you could stock up your entire U-boat with them for nothing. But I'm pretty sure you can't 'pre-set' torpedo loadouts outside of the game.

Now come the possible enhancements:

1) Upgrades aren't necessary automatically approved. When something first becomes available, there is a percentage chance (based upon your current available renown) that if you 'request' an upgrade you'll get it. If you're denied, half the renown cost is deducted. If you're approved, you get the upgrade and have the full amount deducted. As time passes, the approval percentage chance increases as well as the cost decreasing.

This represents two things: after a while, as the stock of said item (for instance, a hydrophone upgrade or radar warning device) increases, BdU would want as many boats to incorporate those upgrades as possible, simply to improve their survivability and effectiveness. You shouldn't have to trade on your influence and reputation to get an upgrade that's been out for two years. Likewise, if you're not the 'best-of-the-best' and you try wheedling a brand-spanking new, just released upgrade, you might just spend some of that precious capital and receive back a polite "We'll think about it."

2) Successfully attacking (and, more importantly, getting away afterwards!) a convoy in late '44 is a heckuva lot greater accomplishment than doing the same in early '40, yet the renown earned remains the same. Having 'Realistic Renown' gradually increase the renown for kills as the war progresses would represent the difficulty of that challenge.

Well, that's it. I wish I could do this on my own but, as I've said, I can't. I would, however, value any comments about this concept.

Hitman · 05-20-10, 08:34 AM

Have you seen how NYGM does it? All renown cost for all items is removed, but install time for new equipment raises significantly.

schlechter pfennig · 05-21-10, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Have you seen how NYGM does it? All renown cost for all items is removed, but install time for new equipment raises significantly.

I have, yes. What my intention was, with 'Realistic Renown', was to make renown also function as a measure of influence and reputation, so that one could try and 'pull strings' or 'call on a favor' to get things sooner, or get a bit of preferential treatment.

Since you've been the only person to respond, and it wasn't even about the concept itself, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess no one is interested. That being the case I'll just keep doing it my manual way for me and not worry about how to get this to work as a stand-alone program.

Hitman · 05-22-10, 02:08 AM

It's not that nobody is interested, but you are asking for someone who can do a programming work for you, and only a few here can (And they usually are busy). When I readed your post I understood that what you are willing to do has some similarities with what NYGM team did, so I pointed you there because you maybe could achieve something similar by studying the NYGM system and making your own edits. It's all in text files in the game, so no need for programming. Or may be even combine SH3 Commander and text edit in the game files.

The idea behind my post was to hint you at a way of doing your project or a lite version of it by own means, and not needing someone else to do a program, in case nobody volunteers.

05-19-10, 07:31 PM	#1
schlechter pfennig Commander Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 462 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 7	[CONCEPT] Realistis Renown I think most of us would agree that the renown system, as it stands, stinks like hedgehogs on your hull. It makes you feel like you're purchasing upgrades rather than trading on your influence (or lack thereof) and, worse, it plays havoc with your promotions. It's not uncommon (for me at least) to get a promotion . . . then get promoted down . . . get a promotion . . . then get promoted down . . . just because I've 'spent' for upgrades and/or a different U-boat. I was working on a manual way of doing this and in the back of my head I kept muttering, "Boy, wouldn't it be nice if this could be done like SHIII Commander handles things." Soooo . . . What I was starting to do manually was remove all renown cost for everything. On paper I'd keep two columns of renown: total accumulated, and current available. If I wanted any upgrades, as long as my current available had the sufficient amount, I'd get the upgrade then subtract it from the current available. That way my promotions wouldn't get buggered up. The concept I have would be an accessory program called 'Realistic Renown' (or something similar). It would be run first, with options to load and run either SH3 Commander or SHIII once you've done upgrading. The problem I have is, to be blunt, my programming skills are a bit rusty . . . as in 20 years out of date rusty. I've also no GUI experience at all. I've looked through the various files and believe I've identified the relevant ones, and know what needs to be done to get this to work, but I don't have the skills to do it myself. I'm more than happy to do grunt-work data entry, etc., but as to the actual programming I'm screwed. Here is how I envision the basic version to work. There are also two potential enhancements, and I'll get to those afterwards, as well as the potential stumbling blocks I've so far identified. When you first install 'Realistic Renown' it will ask for the folder location of the SHIII installation you're running, the location of the SHIII folder (in case it isn't in the usual 'My Documents') as well as the SH3 Commander folder should you also be running that (and who doesn't? ). Once installation is finished it will populate with all your Commanders, past and present. Retired ones, or ones that have been transferred off active patrols, would be flagged as such. If you wanted to start a new career it will indicate that you must first establish a new career and finish your first patrol before you can use 'Realistic Renown'. Installing 'Realistic Renown' would remove all renown costs for upgrades, U-boats and torpedoes. It would also keep track of total renown and current available. Total renown is just that: total. If you ran three patrols and earned 1,000, then 2,500, then 1,500, your total renown would be 5,000. Total renown would never decrease. Current renown is what you have available to 'use your influence' and select upgrades, etc., and the 'cost' of using your influence would then be deducted from your current available. Once you started SHIII (or SH3 Commander) the upgrades, etc., would be applied, plus the time required for them be applied as well. Current renown, unlike total renown, can fluctuate both up and down; down as you 'trade on your influence' and up as you earn that. For instance, say after four patrols your total renown is 5,000, but your current renown is only 1,500 due to your upgrade requests. If your total renown after patrol five is now 6,500, your current available would have increased to 3,000. If you elect to 'use your influence' you'd advance to a GUI that is identical to the upgrade screen and timeline availability screen in SHIII, showing the same options as they become available and the concurrent 'cost'. If you select an upgrade the cost is deducted from your available renown, the relevant file is altered to provide that upgrade, and the additional time to install is also appended to the relevant file. It would also show you how many personnel slots are empty, and give you the ability to 'request' skilled officers, warrant officers and seamen for those positions (for a cost) or just take 'pot-luck' for no cost. So far the potential problem areas I've identified are the following: 1) A player could only upgrade using 'Realistic Renown' after they are back at base and have exited, with the upgrades being applied once they restart. This shouldn't normally be a problem but I'm not sure how SH3 Commander will handle things when you start it up and are told your current Kaluen 'has retired' and you wanted to continue with a new commander, as my understanding is that making any changes will break the continuity. 2) Torpedoes: Towards the latter end of the war certain torpedoes start costing renown. 'Realistic Renown' will have set their 'cost' to zero, which means you could stock up your entire U-boat with them for nothing. But I'm pretty sure you can't 'pre-set' torpedo loadouts outside of the game. Now come the possible enhancements: 1) Upgrades aren't necessary automatically approved. When something first becomes available, there is a percentage chance (based upon your current available renown) that if you 'request' an upgrade you'll get it. If you're denied, half the renown cost is deducted. If you're approved, you get the upgrade and have the full amount deducted. As time passes, the approval percentage chance increases as well as the cost decreasing. This represents two things: after a while, as the stock of said item (for instance, a hydrophone upgrade or radar warning device) increases, BdU would want as many boats to incorporate those upgrades as possible, simply to improve their survivability and effectiveness. You shouldn't have to trade on your influence and reputation to get an upgrade that's been out for two years. Likewise, if you're not the 'best-of-the-best' and you try wheedling a brand-spanking new, just released upgrade, you might just spend some of that precious capital and receive back a polite "We'll think about it." 2) Successfully attacking (and, more importantly, getting away afterwards!) a convoy in late '44 is a heckuva lot greater accomplishment than doing the same in early '40, yet the renown earned remains the same. Having 'Realistic Renown' gradually increase the renown for kills as the war progresses would represent the difficulty of that challenge. Well, that's it. I wish I could do this on my own but, as I've said, I can't. I would, however, value any comments about this concept.

05-20-10, 08:34 AM	#2
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Have you seen how NYGM does it? All renown cost for all items is removed, but install time for new equipment raises significantly. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

05-22-10, 02:08 AM	#4
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	It's not that nobody is interested, but you are asking for someone who can do a programming work for you, and only a few here can (And they usually are busy). When I readed your post I understood that what you are willing to do has some similarities with what NYGM team did, so I pointed you there because you maybe could achieve something similar by studying the NYGM system and making your own edits. It's all in text files in the game, so no need for programming. Or may be even combine SH3 Commander and text edit in the game files. The idea behind my post was to hint you at a way of doing your project or a lite version of it by own means, and not needing someone else to do a program, in case nobody volunteers. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...