Hey everyone... & Dongle DRM anyone?

mr.jc1 · 05-10-10, 05:55 PM

Ok hey everyone, this is my first post. Just reading through other posts on here and had something on my mind. I just wish it was a reality. lol. Sorry if similar posts have existed elsewhere in this forum. This is just my two cents.

I have been waiting for this game to come out for... well pretty much since I found out it had been announced. But I've heard a lot of bad things... a lot... a whole lot. But not amongst good things too. Now I never played anything before SH3. But this to me is pretty much how SH has been since SH3. Always buggy on release. But it does get fixed, in the end, and it ends up epic, really... thats all that matters. It will get bought soon enough, perhaps even this week.

.

The thing that DOES worry me however... is the new trend of internet based digital copy protection DRM schemes the publishers are employing more and more these days. I disagreed with this since I bought Half Life Episode 1 years ago and saw it said on the box that I had to register a STEAM account and have an internet connection to play it. It remained in the packet to this day. However, ironically, in the future I did end up using Steam anyway for a couple of games, namely - Empire Total War, but it isn't so bad I guess. You can at least launch a game without being connected (I guess this was introduced later cos I'm pretty sure this wasn't there from the beginning?) which is more useful than what I'm hearing about SH5. I am rather sad to see SH5 take the plunge this time along. I didn't realise they'd worry about it being so commercial. Actually I thought the opposite, that it has been designed for a what seems to be 'minority' fanbase these days in the simulation world, and that it 'sorts the men from the boys' lmao... so to speak. I also thought that the very nature of that would reserve the game for more along the lines of, true fans of the series who would be happy to buy the game legitimately. But anyway, still... this brings me back to what was on my mind to begin with.

Would anyone else feel that they'd rather pay an extra sum of money (realisically) for a game that ships with a dongle for copy protection? After all, if we must have DRM, this has gotta be a better solution yeah? No more CD keys for pc gamers (I've had mine 'stolen' before, prolly nabbed by some keygen, and suprise suprise, I can't play multiplayer anymore), or the need for you to even have a cd in your cd drive to play when its fully installed. It would kill all birds with one stone and ensure a secured product. I'd pay more for that... for sure. The only downside I see is the fact that you're going to lose a free USB port for the runtime duration of your game. What do you all think?

Anyways thanks for taking the time to read my post, I hope you don't feel like it has been a waste. lol. Take it easy.

JC.

Nisgeis · 05-10-10, 06:20 PM

Welcome aboard!

I don't see any benefit in replacing a need to keep the DVD in the drive with a need to keep a dongle in a USB port. If all games went that way, you'd have the same problem of swapping dongles, plus its something that could get damaged and you'd need to replace it. With the OSP, you don't need the DVD in the drive.

The whole idea behind copy protection, from the business point of view, is to reduce lost sales to piracy. The copy protection should pay for itself, or it's not very useful, IMHO.

The current system of DVD Keys for the OSP protected products seems to work pretty well, with respect to key cloning and being locked out. At least, I haven't heard any reports of anyone who has been locked out of multiplayer due to a cloned key. Perhaps this is a benefit of the online system that we haven't picked up on?

caine007 · 05-10-10, 06:40 PM

Dongles would only be slightly more difficult to crack than the basic "is there a genuine DVD in the drive?" copy protection now.

Be pretty easy for someone to figure out what a dongle is sending/recieving and just rig any USB flash drive to do the same thing.

Anything more complicated than that and you start adding a lot of $$$ to the production costs.

IMO the only way to beat piracy (other than your constantly updated online service like WoW) is to make DRM a two way street. Currently publishers want genuine users to put up with a bunch of extra hassles - without any carrot to sweeten the deal. DRM protected games like SH5 and Splinter Cell Conviction are still buggy and unfinished - and have still been pirated.

Game Publishers need to come to the party. Reward their paying customers for keeping them in business - like making sure they get what they paid for. Even better, start some kind of rewards system. Open up their extensive back catalogues and let people earn points for buying genuine software that you can use to download free games.

aergistal · 05-10-10, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caine007

Game Publishers need to come to the party. Reward their paying customers for keeping them in business - like making sure they get what they paid for. Even better, start some kind of rewards system. Open up their extensive back catalogues and let people earn points for buying genuine software that you can use to download free games.

Couldn't have said it better caine007! Instead of throwing negative incentives against pirates they should focus on positive incentives for customers. But guess what, that's harder to accomplish.

SeamanStaines · 05-10-10, 10:11 PM

I'd happily pay more for a dongle method, would open the game up to many others who want to, but cannot purchase it at the moment.

Advantage of dongle over cd is the copy protection can be upgraded through patches if the game is known to have been cracked. Just authenticate the patch installation over internet though.

Not to mention it being more convienient to carry a few dongles around compared to cd's which are much bulkier/fragile. (thinking about travelling customers here).

McBeck · 05-11-10, 01:30 AM

erhm....guys:

Quote:

We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez, abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, game cracks, illegal download sites, or illegal file-sharing.

SeamanStaines · 05-11-10, 05:25 AM

don't cry for me, argentina

Sailor Steve · 05-11-10, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeamanStaines

don't cry for me, argentina

Now there's a name I haven't seen around here in awhile. Welcome back, stranger!

mookiemookie · 05-11-10, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aergistal

Couldn't have said it better caine007! Instead of throwing negative incentives against pirates they should focus on positive incentives for customers. But guess what, that's harder to accomplish.

That's been the only proven way to beat the piracy problem. Unfortunately, some game companies can't/don't want to realize this.

Diopos · 05-11-10, 02:24 PM

Dongle bells, dongle bells, dongle all the way ............

.

05-10-10, 05:55 PM	#1
mr.jc1 Swabbie Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 9 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Hey everyone... & Dongle DRM anyone? Ok hey everyone, this is my first post. Just reading through other posts on here and had something on my mind. I just wish it was a reality. lol. Sorry if similar posts have existed elsewhere in this forum. This is just my two cents. I have been waiting for this game to come out for... well pretty much since I found out it had been announced. But I've heard a lot of bad things... a lot... a whole lot. But not amongst good things too. Now I never played anything before SH3. But this to me is pretty much how SH has been since SH3. Always buggy on release. But it does get fixed, in the end, and it ends up epic, really... thats all that matters. It will get bought soon enough, perhaps even this week. . The thing that DOES worry me however... is the new trend of internet based digital copy protection DRM schemes the publishers are employing more and more these days. I disagreed with this since I bought Half Life Episode 1 years ago and saw it said on the box that I had to register a STEAM account and have an internet connection to play it. It remained in the packet to this day. However, ironically, in the future I did end up using Steam anyway for a couple of games, namely - Empire Total War, but it isn't so bad I guess. You can at least launch a game without being connected (I guess this was introduced later cos I'm pretty sure this wasn't there from the beginning?) which is more useful than what I'm hearing about SH5. I am rather sad to see SH5 take the plunge this time along. I didn't realise they'd worry about it being so commercial. Actually I thought the opposite, that it has been designed for a what seems to be 'minority' fanbase these days in the simulation world, and that it 'sorts the men from the boys' lmao... so to speak. I also thought that the very nature of that would reserve the game for more along the lines of, true fans of the series who would be happy to buy the game legitimately. But anyway, still... this brings me back to what was on my mind to begin with. Would anyone else feel that they'd rather pay an extra sum of money (realisically) for a game that ships with a dongle for copy protection? After all, if we must have DRM, this has gotta be a better solution yeah? No more CD keys for pc gamers (I've had mine 'stolen' before, prolly nabbed by some keygen, and suprise suprise, I can't play multiplayer anymore), or the need for you to even have a cd in your cd drive to play when its fully installed. It would kill all birds with one stone and ensure a secured product. I'd pay more for that... for sure. The only downside I see is the fact that you're going to lose a free USB port for the runtime duration of your game. What do you all think? Anyways thanks for taking the time to read my post, I hope you don't feel like it has been a waste. lol. Take it easy. JC.

05-10-10, 06:20 PM	#2
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Welcome aboard! I don't see any benefit in replacing a need to keep the DVD in the drive with a need to keep a dongle in a USB port. If all games went that way, you'd have the same problem of swapping dongles, plus its something that could get damaged and you'd need to replace it. With the OSP, you don't need the DVD in the drive. The whole idea behind copy protection, from the business point of view, is to reduce lost sales to piracy. The copy protection should pay for itself, or it's not very useful, IMHO. The current system of DVD Keys for the OSP protected products seems to work pretty well, with respect to key cloning and being locked out. At least, I haven't heard any reports of anyone who has been locked out of multiplayer due to a cloned key. Perhaps this is a benefit of the online system that we haven't picked up on? __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

05-11-10, 02:24 PM	#10
Diopos Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, the original one. Posts: 1,226 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Dongle bells, dongle bells, dongle all the way ............ . __________________ - Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway!

05-10-10, 06:40 PM	#3
caine007 A-ganger Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 72 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Dongles would only be slightly more difficult to crack than the basic "is there a genuine DVD in the drive?" copy protection now. Be pretty easy for someone to figure out what a dongle is sending/recieving and just rig any USB flash drive to do the same thing. Anything more complicated than that and you start adding a lot of $$$ to the production costs. IMO the only way to beat piracy (other than your constantly updated online service like WoW) is to make DRM a two way street. Currently publishers want genuine users to put up with a bunch of extra hassles - without any carrot to sweeten the deal. DRM protected games like SH5 and Splinter Cell Conviction are still buggy and unfinished - and have still been pirated. Game Publishers need to come to the party. Reward their paying customers for keeping them in business - like making sure they get what they paid for. Even better, start some kind of rewards system. Open up their extensive back catalogues and let people earn points for buying genuine software that you can use to download free games.

05-10-10, 10:11 PM	#5
SeamanStaines Watch Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Canberra Posts: 30 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I'd happily pay more for a dongle method, would open the game up to many others who want to, but cannot purchase it at the moment. Advantage of dongle over cd is the copy protection can be upgraded through patches if the game is known to have been cracked. Just authenticate the patch installation over internet though. Not to mention it being more convienient to carry a few dongles around compared to cd's which are much bulkier/fragile. (thinking about travelling customers here).

05-11-10, 05:25 AM	#7
SeamanStaines Watch Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Canberra Posts: 30 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	don't cry for me, argentina