Fed up of dying

[Bill Seiko]

Using TMO I manage first part of mission in campaign mode but always manage to die on the way home without the chance to sink any ships.
I am hopeless at SH4, any help and advice would really be appreciated before I put the game away.
The last time it was aircraft that got me and I had to surface due to low batteries.

Thanks

Bill

[BillBam]

Originally Posted by Bill Seiko

Using TMO I manage first part of mission in campaign mode but always manage to die on the way home without the chance to sink any ships.
I am hopeless at SH4, any help and advice would really be appreciated before I put the game away.
The last time it was aircraft that got me and I had to surface due to low batteries.

Thanks

Bill

I assume you have watched the tutorial videos and read all the great tips in the forum threads. If so maybe you should try vanilla SH4 before trying out TMO which is probably the hardest of the supermod setups.

[Armistead]

Understand the AI playing TMO http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

Planes in TMO can see you and drop bombs. Just go to about 160ft and you'll be safe if planes come around. With radar you can get dived, just use crash dive to get deep fast with some of the earlier boats.

[kiwi_2005]

Make the game a bit easier until you learn the ropes so to speak. Have Unlimited fuel, no dud torpedoes. Dont always dive when aircaft are sited get your crew to man the AA guns and fight it out on the surface, going at flank speed and zigzagging. If you need to surface go deep and stay at slow speed up the time compression till you see your batteries reach half way then surface hit stand speed and up time compression to 512, till batteries are charged. When you find a convoy save the game if you mess up just reload and try again. Unless your playing DiD.

Im running the Typoon Class nuclear sub mod at the moment i dont have to worry about anything except shallow waters. Im always submerged stalking prey. lol

[Reinhard Dietz]

Switch to U-boats!

If I read your post right, you're getting picked off while returning to base. The good news is that you've got an American submarine which probably starts with an air search radar right from the get go. This is a good thing.

My best piece of advice regarding aircraft, one I've learned through nasty experience: On a pair of aircraft incoming, dive the instant you detect them and stay down for an hour or so. It's probably a pair of A6Ms and the ones I've seen so far (17 December 1941 in the current career) have managed to lightly damage, mission kill and kill outright my beloved Searaven without loss to them. Other aircraft, like the G4M and those seaplanes the Japanese had, are less of a threat. Those can be engaged---preferably by your gunner---on the surface.

Hang in there. Like the prior poster said, you might want to run a career or two through the stock campaign, like I'm doing, to learn the particulars of the USN fleet boat, if you haven't already.

Let me know if that's of use.

[theluckyone17]

Originally Posted by Reinhard Dietz

On a pair of aircraft incoming, dive the instant you detect them and stay down for an hour or so.

And dive deep, too... 160' or deeper. Thanks to that clear Pacific water (and Ducimus' skills), they can see your sub at shallower depths. Get deep, and that'll help protect you.

The corollary is to stay away from shallow water. Shallow water = death.

[Admiral8Q]

Damn, I died at 200 feet. I guess my bulkheads are weak. Oi!!!

[tomoose]

Bill Seiko;
When heading home, travel on the surface at night and in the early hours. Go under for most of the daylight hours at least until you are approx 500km away from the nearest Japanese territory. Once you are out of aircraft range you can usually stay on the surface for the remainder of the voyage.

As mentioned, if you get an air radar contact do not mess around.....dive!
Stay under for a while then come back up and continue on your merry way. There is a bit of "up and down" involved until you're clear of enemy range.

What I usually do is take my compass map tool and put 500 mile radius circles over key Japanese locations (i.e. Tokyo, Okinawa, Iwo Jima etc). I assume a 1000-mile round-trip range for the average aircraft and these circle zones show me on the map when/where I can expect regular air activity. So far it has proved to be pretty damn reliable in that once I pass into those marked areas that's when things get interesting. Conversely it has worked the opposite way too in that once I'm out of those marked areas I can breath a bit easier and stay on the surface longer. There's the odd time when an aircraft shows up outside the zone but it's rare (your zones will have to adjust as the war progresses). I freely admit it's a fairly rough "tripwire" but as I said it's been pretty damn accurate so far.

Hope this makes sense and helps a bit.

[danurve]

It also helps to raise your air search antenna before you surface. You can actually cruise a PD with it, just get used to surfacing to recharge and replenish. Payoff is if your close to an escort they seem to spot you easier, so remember to lower it.

[Chubster]

One thing I am not sure about is if you have to do this when in port or anything, perhaps someone can confirm?

[Hylander_1314]

It's always best, and the safest thing to do if you're in port after a mission, or before accepting orders to disembark.

[Keelbuster]

I find that in TMO 1.9, convoy escorts give up after a couple hours. I have had some severe depth chargings where I assumed I was a dead man. But with basic evasion tactics, even in the worst conditions, I have found that eventually the escorts peel off to rejoin the convoy. Just tonight, I hit a convoy hard coming out of the Bungo strait, sinking 3 ships. It was perfectly still water, and having attacked from about 1500 yards, naturally I was detected by one of the escorts. The other two closed in, and for two hours they took turns DCing the hell out of me. I used the basic tactic of when a DD does his DC run, I change course by about 30 degrees (away from the bulk of them) and change depth by say 50 ft. I'm in a Balao, so I operate around 500 ft, going down to 600 in extreme emergencies. Anyway, they had me on sonar, and no amount of depth would make them lose me. I just had to wait it out, dodge the ashcans, and eventually, miraculously, they all decided to blaze back in the direction of the convoy. I got away with light damage to the stern tubes. I've had this experience before...if you try to outlast them, they will eventually leave...

[Rockin Robbins]

Bill,

Planes are not a problem if you handle them right. You don't have to and it isn't helpful to stay submerged all day or even for an hour after sighting one. All that does is discharge your batteries so you aren't combat ready.

Remember, a submarine is a surface boat with the unique ability to submerge when absolutely necessary, and to stay submerged for the absolute minimum amount of time. With airplanes, that means about 10 minutes total per plane. Our goal is to have 100% charged batteries available to fight at all times.

Let me explain. First of all, this strategy needs air search radar, a pretty common thing on American submarines. When a plane is first spotted on radar, you have several minutes of decision time. Let's use them! A couple of planes just showed up. What are they up to?

I immediately draw a 5 mile radius circle around my sub. That's my danger zone. If the planes enter that zone, they can possibly see me. My goal is never to be seen by a plane, EVER. That means no John Wayne popgun ineffectually giving away my position so the pilot can call his good buddies to the party and I'm swarmed for several days. I'm not going there. If a plane can possibly see me I'm pulling the plug.

OK, we have the visibility danger circle around the sub. Now, from the position of the plane, draw two lines from the plane(s) to both outsides of the circle (tangent lines).


Not every plane is going to enter your danger zone. If it does not we want to stay on the surface. 100% battery charge at all times you know... With our "ice cream cone" chart, we can easily tell with plenty of time whether this bad guy is going to be a problem. If he stays outside the cone, we're golden. If he crosses the line to the inside it's time to initiate avoidance.

At that point our goal is to be at or below periscope depth when he crosses the circle line of our danger zone. Pick a number below 100', I always just use about 110, your mileage may differ but I haven't had a problem with that and full-blown TMO. As you cross periscope depth, start your stopwatch. When it reaches 5 minutes, press surface ("s"). Do not dawdle around at periscope depth looking for planes. He's gone. No buddies not previously spotted on radar have had time to enter your danger zone. Your combat awareness is 100%. You are safe. Just get up there and resume surface travel.

You haven't been spotted. No little flyboy buddies will be checking you out. Also, I run around at best fuel economy, about 9 knots all the time. during my plane avoidance drill I don't touch the throttle. I submerge normally, none of this crash dive silliness, because you have plenty of time. Planes are not an issue in TMO. They are not a threat. They cannot ever see you.

The only thing that can hold you down is an escort. And if you didn't follow my airplane avoidance strategy, you're not ready for them because you have low batteries. You're a dead duck. Why would you care whether you were killed by a plane or by an escort. Wouldn't you rather not be killed by either?

[Chubster]

Hi Rockin....it was reading one of your other tutorials...excellent by the way....that led me to ask a question on here. You have mentioned it again above.

The "5 mile radius circle around your sub".....have you managed to link this so that it follows your sub.....if so how? The manual states its possible and would be extremely useful if poss