Modern Destroyers

[HundertzehnGustav]

Hi Yall...
I have a Question for those of you that know something about modern Warships...

from a "modern destroyer and general warship noob"

Here goes.
In the golf of aden, off the somali coast, Modern warships that cost 10s od millions of Dollars and Euroes are safeguarding shipping lanes, not much unlie back in WWII... hopping from hotspot to hotspot distress call to distress call.

Their enemies are small Boats, between 10 feet and up to 50 feet long from what i gather. Manned with kalashnikov wielding RPG swinging Pistols Bracing men... threatning tankers and cargoes...

Now i find that, as is normal, quite distrurbing.

What i (pretend to) know

But these Destroyers all have one single large Cannon up front, a single or two AA guns, anti-missile-missiles, anti ship missiles and cruise missiles and such.
The Large Cannons seem to be similar in caliber to those carried on old WWII destroyers. Okay, they have been upgraded in electronics, motorics and Ammunition and are WAY more accurate, destructive and fast firing nowadays.


Sailors and boarding commandoes aboard are probably armed with 7.62mm Machione pistols, Pistols, and maybe even some long range (sniper) rifles?

The Helicopters they carry (Sea lynx, SH60...) are armed with Torpedoes or anti ship Missiles (Lolz) and machineguns of up to .50 inch calibers in the doors...

The question that arises...

How the Blue funk do they chase down the pirates?
turning a DD to hunt the is timeconsuming, and there are too few DDs around the zone to do so.

Deploying the Choppers, armed with machineguns, puts the choppers in range of small caliber fire and the odd bazooka. God beware if the ragheads ever lay their hands on a bunch of IR guided Missiles a la stinger?!!

and if wou find one or two of their boats or mother ships, how do you destroy these things asap if you cannot go near them with the chopper, and your DD is 25 miles away?

all you can do is track them and attempt to discourage them from acting by showing the flag?

would smaller, but faster Warships with more Firepower instead of large modern DDs not be more effective to do the Job?

I am thinking of tracked Miniguns on the DDs, two or more cannons of large caliber, Helicopters with guided missiles and Rocket pods...

something more "down to earth"... something "lots of guns in your face"

Forgive me for the heap of questions... but it is, to me, an interesting subject, and i would like learn a bit more about how the "war against pirates" is fought...

[Sailor Steve]

It's hard to hit a fast-moving target, and especially so if you're firing a hand-held weapon from a small boat pitching and rolling on the sea. Traditional anti-aircraft weapons are fairly heavy caliber and long-ranged. A .50 mounted in a chopper door has a much better chance of hitting (and killing) a small vessel than same vessel does of returning the favor with any kind of weapons they'll have.

A stinger? Sure. On the other hand all the chopper has to do is get between the pirates and their home until the 40-knot destroyer gets there. And there aren't too many smaller, faster vessels that can do the job a modern destroyer can. Riverine-type boats aren't really any faster, and don't have near the range to patrol a big area. The destroyer is just about perfect.

[Raptor1]

To do anything effective to those things you have to get in the range of their weapons, but a properly equipped helicopter or the DD itself easily outguns whatever a small pirate boat is capable of carrying, so it's rarely a contest. Do you risk return fire? Sure, but that's your job anyway...

[HundertzehnGustav]

To illustrate my "point"... here two shots of US destroyers



and the Good old Cannon loaded Fletcher classes




Hmm... Modern destroyers not correctly armed for this kind of "guerilla" warfare?

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

To do anything effective to those things you have to get in the range of their weapons, but a properly equipped helicopter or the DD itself easily outguns whatever a small pirate boat is capable of carrying, so it's rarely a contest. Do you risk return fire? Sure, but that's your job anyway...

of course...
i am not saying the DD is in danger. such a boat with half a dozen pirates with kalashnikovs, RPGs , even if they all fired properly and hit the DD...
would do nothing more that unleash the anger of said DD crew, a short call back home to confirm the ability to fire...

a thing i would like to see on youtube.
Massaker.
Pure Massaker
*popcorn*

[Raptor1]

The Fletcher's 5"ers won't be very effective against the small pirate boats, at least not any more than the single gun on the modern DDs...

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It's hard to hit a fast-moving target, and especially so if you're firing a hand-held weapon from a small boat pitching and rolling on the sea. Traditional anti-aircraft weapons are fairly heavy caliber and long-ranged. A .50 mounted in a chopper door has a much better chance of hitting (and killing) a small vessel than same vessel does of returning the favor with any kind of weapons they'll have.

A stinger? Sure. On the other hand all the chopper has to do is get between the pirates and their home until the 40-knot destroyer gets there. And there aren't too many smaller, faster vessels that can do the job a modern destroyer can. Riverine-type boats aren't really any faster, and don't have near the range to patrol a big area. The destroyer is just about perfect.

Yea , having red that story of US soldiers in the skies over murgadhishu tells me that a kalashnikov or an RPG aint a big threat...
But getting my Chopper shot at, (and if it were s lingshot) wouldnt make me feel good if i was the DD capitain...

Riverine boats...


Hmmm Hell yea!
Not really what i would wish for in a gunfight... two .30s or .50s up front, small radar equipment.... maybe a handhelt guided missile or two?

but then again, the Boat is not the best weapons platform for such weapons. not at high sea!

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The Fletcher's 5"ers won't be very effective against the small pirate boats, at least not any more than the single gun on the modern DDs...

But some proper long range AAA fire laid down on them would?


these Pirates, in my mind they are somewhat uneducated...
five simutaneous splashes from the 5'' Cuns, a few dozen feet from the rocking boat would sure as hell discourage me!

and there would be no need to put such an expensive, modern DD at risk?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

But some proper long range AAA fire laid down on them would?

Well, a 20mm phalanx can put out 3000 rounds per minute, or 50 rounds per second. I'd say yes.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Maybe complement each Destroyer (long range, Chopper carrying, missile launching) with such "small" vessels as a corvette?

One destroyer, commanding and controlling up to five corvettes?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laksamana_class_corvette

The Laksamana Class is armed with a 76 mm 62 calibre Oto Melara Super Rapid gun is installed on the bow deck in front of the citadel. The firing rate is 120 rounds/minute and range is up to 16 km. The ships are also armed with the 40 mm Oto Melara L70 twin gun in the multi-role mode over a range of 12.5 km and firing rate of 300 rounds/minute

aint that JUST the kind of firepower that is needed on the right platform?
(fast, manoevrable, strong firepower)

instead of a Destroyer?

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well, a 20mm phalanx can put out 3000 rounds per minute, or 50 rounds per second. I'd say yes.

heard of these S.O.B s installed on US carriers against close range Missiles.


Phalanx vs Pirate boat = big fun

[Oberon]

Specifications (SH-60B)

Data from Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory,[35] Navy fact file,[14] and Sikorsky S-70B[36][37]
General characteristics

• Crew: 3–4
• Capacity: 5 passengers in cabin or slung load of 6,000 lb or internal load of 4,100 lb for B, F and H models and 11 passengers or slung load of 9,000 lb for S
• Length: 64 ft 8 in (19.75 m)
• Rotor diameter: 53 ft 8 in (16.35 m)
• Height: 17 ft 2 in (5.2 m)
• Disc area: 2,262 ft² (210 m²)
• Empty weight: 15,200 lb (6,895 kg)
• Loaded weight: 17,758 lb (8,055 kg) (ASW mission)
• Useful load: 6,684 lb (3,031 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 21,884 lb (9,927 kg)
• Powerplant: 2× General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft, 1,890 shp (1,410 kW) take-off power each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 180 kn (333 km/h; 207 mph)
• Cruise speed: 146 kn (270 km/h; 168 mph)
• Range: 450 nmi (518 mi/834 km) at cruise speed
• Service ceiling: 12,000 ft (3,580 m)
• Rate of climb: 1,650 ft/min (8.38 m/s)

Armament

• Up to three Mark 46 torpedos or Mark 50 torpedos,
• AGM-114 Hellfire missile, 4 Hellfire missiles for SH-60B and HH-60H, 8 Hellfire missiles for MH-60S Block III.
• AGM-119 Penguin missile (being phased out),
• M60 machine gun or, M240 machine gun or GAU-16/A machine gun or GAU-17/A Minigun
• Rapid Airborne Mine Clearance System (RAMICS) using Mk 44 Mod 0 30 mm Cannon

See Main Article: U.S. Helicopter Armament Subsystems

A Hellfire would ruin any pirate ships day.

Specifications (Super Lynx Series 100)

Data from Flight International World Aircraft and Systems Directory (3rd ed.)
General characteristics

• Crew: 2 or 3
• Payload: 737 kg[clarification needed] ()
• Length: 15.241 m (50 ft)
• Rotor diameter: 12.80 m (42 ft)
• Height: 3.734 m for mk7; 3.785 m for mk9 (12.25 ft for mk7; 12.41 ft for mk9)
• Disc area: 128.71 m² (1,385 ft²)
• Empty weight: 3,291 kg (7,255 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 5,330 kg (11,750 lb)
• Powerplant: 2× Rolls-Royce Gem turboshaft, 835 kW (1,120 shp) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 324 km/h (201 mph)
• Range: 528 km (328 miles) with standard tanks

Armament

• Naval: 2 x torpedoes or 4x Sea Skua missiles or 2 x depth charges.
• Attack: 2 x 20mm cannons, 2 x 70mm rocket pods CRV7, 8 x TOW ATGM[57]
• General: 7.62mm General Purpose Machine Guns (AH.7 and AH.9), Browning AN/M3M .50 calibre heavy machine gun (HAS.3 and HMA.8)

TOW ATGMs too

Failing that though, there's also ASMs on board most destroyers if need be, and that frontal cannon. Usually though, pirates are not much of a threat unless they get into close quarter range, in which case there's enough MGs on board to put up a good defence unless they're operating under a false flag in order to get to USS Cole distance

[CaptainHaplo]

Its important to remember what kind of boats the pirates are using. They are literally speedboats - towed out to see by a larger "mothership". The range is limited, the contruction is no more solid that the skiboat that pulls you at the lake. The mothership is little more than a fishing boat - usually wooden but possibily composite hull. Your not talking about a metal hulled vessel at all.....

20 and 30 mm will chew through any of this - heck the 50 cal will sink the speedboats, even the 7.62 would if you used enough of it. A single Seahawk carries enough small ammo to take out the speedboats, and using a hellfire or tow on a mothership is pretty much overkill.

Remember that the destroyer doesn't have to be "close" - the range and speed of the SH 60 gives them a huge "coverage" area. Also - what is often done is shooting out the engines of the vessels in question with small arms = leaving them dead in the water until the nearest military vessel can close.

[HundertzehnGustav]

A Hellfire would ruin any pirate ships day.

agreed... but you have to catch that SoB... need a direct hit?
Does the navy use weapons such as the hellfire on DDs? aint
that "Army" stuff?


extremely small target? manoevrable?

M-60 Grunt FTW... but gotta get close...
Minigun in the side door... range+RoF
(bring on the Herkules Flying Gunships ^^)


Torpedoes... anti ship missiles... LOLz
such a thing would cut the pirate boat in half without even triggering an explosion.
But fun on mother ships such as this one





Still...

Its a Freaking price to pay, just to bring a little firepower around the globe!
Damn! Hundreds of men, a Million dollar ship... and its never enough!
wish it was easier.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Its important to remember what kind of boats the pirates are using...

interesting...