How the hell did this happen??

CaptainNemo12 · 04-02-10, 01:38 PM

I was approaching a convoy head on at periscope depth at ahead slow, silent running, with the leading frigate approaching at about 8000m - 9000m off my bow. Decided to dive to 40m and ordered all engines stop. At this point the frigate is about 20 degrees off my starboard bow.

After a few minutes, my boat was dead in the water and not making a sound. As I watched through the external camera, the leading frigate continued on its course for another 5 mins as if it no one was there. Suddenly, at about a 1000m away from my U-boat, the damn thing veered off course and started pinging away at me!

How this this happen? I thought that warships only started pinging after they had detected propeller noises? How could they detect an object underwater that is not making a single sound?

I'm playing GWX 3 and this is not the first time this had happened, I once tried to pass below the keel of a merchant at about 50m underwater when the merchant somehow detected me (underwater!) and turned to avoid...

Any ideas?

KL-alfman · 04-02-10, 03:20 PM

1) what date?
2) escorts in late war "ping" constantly
3) 1,000m is very close (should've been 2-2,500m)

and fourth and most important:

sink em all!

Jimbuna · 04-02-10, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KL-alfman

2) escorts in late war "ping" constantly

In GWX3.0 even?

CaptainNemo12 · 04-02-10, 04:41 PM

Currently in 1940, any other ideas? Could this be to due to surface units having "underwater" sensor data in GWX?

Vipper · 04-02-10, 04:43 PM

Happened to me too at very early 40 and not only to me. There is other threads complaining that DD's have "psychic powers". Some messages claimed that this is known glitch that when sub presents excellent sonar target cause angle and DD is near by it does start to ping.

So, maybe they really have "psychic" powers.

Some peoples told that DD's that were mess with before stays alerted state and may ping randomly.

Who knows?

Jimbuna · 04-02-10, 04:48 PM

In GWX the escort is nearly always in a passive state/mode.

If their sensors alert them to your presence in the area they then go into active/pinging mode.

CaptainNemo12 · 04-02-10, 04:58 PM

Thanks Jim for clarifying, so I'm guessing the DD's so "sense" a sub submerged with engines off? I don't really see how this is realistic since I did not hear any random pings when approaching the convoy in the first place...

Dutch · 04-02-10, 05:11 PM

Might have come across an elite Jedi filled DE. I do agree with you were a bit close you do generally want to be around 2k away and then move in once they have you in their wake.

pickinthebanjo · 04-02-10, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo12

Thanks Jim for clarifying, so I'm guessing the DD's so "sense" a sub submerged with engines off? I don't really see how this is realistic since I did not hear any random pings when approaching the convoy in the first place...

I get ahead of convoys and cut my engines all the time (every time) and not once has a single destroyer started searching for me until after I fire some torpedoes. Heres a pic just to show that you can be right beside enemy destroyers and they will have no idea your even there.
By the way I use SH3 with GWX3, Commander and that OLC GUI(Still learning that one)

Oh yeah also I play on 95% Realism (only external cam is enabled, and recently stabilized view)

CaptainNemo12 · 04-02-10, 05:45 PM

That is very strange indeed, would it be best to approach the convoy head on submerged from a 45 degree angle off the lead DD's bow?

Has anyone come up with a fix for this bug? Big realism killer IMHO.

HW3 · 04-02-10, 06:08 PM

I managed to slip into a convoy in March 44 guarded by 15 escorts from the front head on passing the lead escort at about 1000M. I was at periscope depth, silent running, and engines stopped. Admitted this is a very rare occurrence and I was in a type IXC. BTW I sank 2 ships and got away. The only thought I have is if the sea was rough, maybe your conning tower broke the surface and was spotted?

KL-alfman · 04-02-10, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

In GWX3.0 even?

you might be right.
I was confused by ryanglavin's story about the procedures DDs usually did .....

CaptainNemo12 · 04-02-10, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HW3

maybe your conning tower broke the surface and was spotted?

Impossible, by the time the DDs were within visual range, I was 40m beneath the waves

PappyCain · 04-02-10, 06:21 PM

Not sure if I understand this:

How could they detect an object underwater that is not making a single sound?

The concept is to ping or send a sound wave out and if it hits an object and bounces back then it is clear there is a object that requires additional investigation. Point is the sonar operator does not have to 'hear' your screws to ping.

I can only suspect that the angle of your sub to the vessel presented a good 'return' on the sound wave and he swung back to search and confirm.

Also "head-on" usually means nose to nose. Are you saying you approached head on? Bow to bow, or off his port or starboard quarter, or abeam?

I suppose the programmers have the answer BUT I do not want to know as that is an immersion killer for me!!! LOL I rather would like to think there are really lil' people in the game who make the decisions. ahahhaha.

S'

Jimbuna · 04-02-10, 07:46 PM

The game imposes upon us a sense of parameters that we'll probably never fully understand.

Keep as low a cross-sectional profile to the escorts and maintain a depth that allows no margin of 'porpoise' level and that should minimize your chances of being detected.

Rest assured, once you have given the enemy a 'sniff' of your presence, every tool in his arsenal will be activated to bring about your demise.

04-02-10, 01:38 PM	#1
CaptainNemo12 Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 307 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	How the hell did this happen?? I was approaching a convoy head on at periscope depth at ahead slow, silent running, with the leading frigate approaching at about 8000m - 9000m off my bow. Decided to dive to 40m and ordered all engines stop. At this point the frigate is about 20 degrees off my starboard bow. After a few minutes, my boat was dead in the water and not making a sound. As I watched through the external camera, the leading frigate continued on its course for another 5 mins as if it no one was there. Suddenly, at about a 1000m away from my U-boat, the damn thing veered off course and started pinging away at me! How this this happen? I thought that warships only started pinging after they had detected propeller noises? How could they detect an object underwater that is not making a single sound? I'm playing GWX 3 and this is not the first time this had happened, I once tried to pass below the keel of a merchant at about 50m underwater when the merchant somehow detected me (underwater!) and turned to avoid... Any ideas?

04-02-10, 03:20 PM	#2
KL-alfman Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Weimar Posts: 930 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	1) what date? 2) escorts in late war "ping" constantly 3) 1,000m is very close (should've been 2-2,500m) and fourth and most important: sink em all! __________________ Life, Liberty and Property!

04-02-10, 04:48 PM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	In GWX the escort is nearly always in a passive state/mode. If their sensors alert them to your presence in the area they then go into active/pinging mode. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

04-02-10, 05:11 PM	#8
Dutch Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 376 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Might have come across an elite Jedi filled DE. I do agree with you were a bit close you do generally want to be around 2k away and then move in once they have you in their wake. __________________ \"Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You, Ask What You Can Do For Your Country.\" President John F. Kennedy

04-02-10, 06:08 PM	#11
HW3 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gresham Oregon Posts: 6,574 Downloads: 458 Uploads: 0	I managed to slip into a convoy in March 44 guarded by 15 escorts from the front head on passing the lead escort at about 1000M. I was at periscope depth, silent running, and engines stopped. Admitted this is a very rare occurrence and I was in a type IXC. BTW I sank 2 ships and got away. The only thought I have is if the sea was rough, maybe your conning tower broke the surface and was spotted? __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink...others require our assistance." Nathan Zelk

04-02-10, 04:41 PM	#4
CaptainNemo12 Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 307 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Currently in 1940, any other ideas? Could this be to due to surface units having "underwater" sensor data in GWX?

04-02-10, 04:43 PM	#5
Vipper Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 122 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Happened to me too at very early 40 and not only to me. There is other threads complaining that DD's have "psychic powers". Some messages claimed that this is known glitch that when sub presents excellent sonar target cause angle and DD is near by it does start to ping. So, maybe they really have "psychic" powers. Some peoples told that DD's that were mess with before stays alerted state and may ping randomly. Who knows?

04-02-10, 04:58 PM	#7
CaptainNemo12 Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 307 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Thanks Jim for clarifying, so I'm guessing the DD's so "sense" a sub submerged with engines off? I don't really see how this is realistic since I did not hear any random pings when approaching the convoy in the first place...

04-02-10, 05:45 PM	#10
CaptainNemo12 Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 307 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	That is very strange indeed, would it be best to approach the convoy head on submerged from a 45 degree angle off the lead DD's bow? Has anyone come up with a fix for this bug? Big realism killer IMHO.

04-02-10, 06:21 PM	#14
PappyCain Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: on the Atlantic Ocean Posts: 559 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Not sure if I understand this: How could they detect an object underwater that is not making a single sound? The concept is to ping or send a sound wave out and if it hits an object and bounces back then it is clear there is a object that requires additional investigation. Point is the sonar operator does not have to 'hear' your screws to ping. I can only suspect that the angle of your sub to the vessel presented a good 'return' on the sound wave and he swung back to search and confirm. Also "head-on" usually means nose to nose. Are you saying you approached head on? Bow to bow, or off his port or starboard quarter, or abeam? I suppose the programmers have the answer BUT I do not want to know as that is an immersion killer for me!!! LOL I rather would like to think there are really lil' people in the game who make the decisions. ahahhaha. S' __________________ DID, no cheats, no shortcuts, no non-historic equipment deviations. Boat and crew safety is integral with my immersion style! Follow the historic events during your patrol: http://www.uboat.net/today.html Last edited by PappyCain; 04-02-10 at 06:55 PM.

04-02-10, 07:46 PM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The game imposes upon us a sense of parameters that we'll probably never fully understand. Keep as low a cross-sectional profile to the escorts and maintain a depth that allows no margin of 'porpoise' level and that should minimize your chances of being detected. Rest assured, once you have given the enemy a 'sniff' of your presence, every tool in his arsenal will be activated to bring about your demise. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!