Unions get a sweet deal (politics)

[SteamWake]

When I heard Obama was meeting behind closed doors with the union cheifs to discuss the 'cadillac tax' I was thinking to myself. "Why would he do this? The unions are his best friend. Wont they be pissed if suddenly their healthcare was taxed?"

What about all those pension plans?

Now it all makes sense !

The sweetheart deal, hammered out behind closed doors, will save union employees at least $60 billion over the years involved, while others won't be as lucky -- they'll have to cough up almost $90 billion.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...PIJlIxXAm37DOM

[August]

This stuff would be funny if it wasn't so blatantly damaging to our country.

There is nothing like "the redistribution of wealth", from those that can not afford it.

The more the government does,
the worse it gets.

USA's government needs to learn the realy simple concept of,
"We can't afford it".
They keep looking for more ways, to spend more money, that people no longer have.
Are they deliberately trying to collapse the country?

[nikimcbee]

This stuff really pisses me off. I think they need a 100% union dues tax to offset this.

[AVGWarhawk]

Unions are a thing of the past IMO. It now is a group that use strong arm tactics to get things.

Personaly, I prefer negotiating my own deals.

Sometimes the "one size fits all" mentality of unions is counterproductive.

If one can bring more money into a company and/or reduce that company's costs, they are worth more, and should be compensated accordingly.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Unions are a thing of the past IMO. It now is a group that use strong arm tactics to get things.

Unions are necessary more than ever in a world where there is no balance against mega corporations. You know what a future without unions is ? Look back at the industrial revolution, or just at China (not the glitz but the real deal), or look at Dubai beyond the skyscrapers. Dust a little and you see slavery, misery, you know those concepts that somehow our western society manged to squash out in great part due to unions.
You may despise unions, but the positive impact they had on the job market since the industrial revolution cannot be denied.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Unions are necessary more than ever in a world where there is no balance against mega corporations. You know what a future without unions is ? Look back at the industrial revolution, or just at China (not the glitz but the real deal), or look at Dubai beyond the skycrapers. Dust a little and you see slavery, misery, you know those concepts that somehow our western society manged to squash out in great part due to unions.
You may despise unions, but the positive impact they had on the job market since the industrial revolution cannot be denied.

I knew someone would speak up! I do not despise unions to be clear. I believe they are not needed anymore. To me, unions were created for better pay and mostly for safer working environments in the industrial revolution as you pointed out. It worked great and I agree with you. However, today with so many watchdogs, OSHA for example, having a union does not assure safe working environments. They do not need to worry about that or assure it. That is what OSHA is for. The company need to abide by the OSHA regs. So what do the unions do? They spend their time jockeying for more pay, vacation and stocks. I have seen more unions decimate a company then save it. Catapiller in York PA for example. The union would not take a pay cut to stay open. It was not a large cut. The union said no. Well, the factory closed. There, now you have no job. Poor decision by the union. So your $15.00/hour job is now $0.00/hour. The only union I recognized as attempting to save a company was the local for Preston Trucking. My father-in-law worked for Preston over 20 years. Preston was sold to a couple of guys. The company was in some trouble. They asked the union to take a cut. The agreed so the doors would stay open. They wanted to save their jobs. The facts and figures were all laid out. Agreement made to take a cut. The doors did stay open for a good year but the writing was on the wall. The company was worth more broken up and sold. It was sold. Shame as the union did attempt to keep it open. There was goodwill intention. But again, I do not despise unions. I just do not think the union type of workforce is needed anymore. There is enough watchdogs for safety. There are minimum wage laws. And, if the pay is too low, no one forces the worker to stay employed there.

[ETR3(SS)]

Transparency!

[SteamWake]

I have nothing against union membership at least but the 'leaders' might as well move into the white house.

There being so tightly intertwined with politics is not a good thing. Now they manage a tax exemption that all the rest of us will have to pay. How is that fair?

[AVGWarhawk]

From what I understand the unions receive a 40% cut on monies paid to the healthcare reform forthcoming. Just how does that muster?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Unions are necessary more than ever in a world where there is no balance against mega corporations. You know what a future without unions is ? Look back at the industrial revolution, or just at China (not the glitz but the real deal), or look at Dubai beyond the skyscrapers. Dust a little and you see slavery, misery, you know those concepts that somehow our western society manged to squash out in great part due to unions.
You may despise unions, but the positive impact they had on the job market since the industrial revolution cannot be denied.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I knew someone would speak up! I do not despise unions to be clear. I believe they are not needed anymore. To me, unions were created for better pay and mostly for safer working environments in the industrial revolution as you pointed out. It worked great and I agree with you. However, today with so many watchdogs, OSHA for example, having a union does not assure safe working environments. They do not need to worry about that or assure it. That is what OSHA is for. The company need to abide by the OSHA regs. So what do the unions do? They spend their time jockeying for more pay, vacation and stocks. I have seen more unions decimate a company then save it. Catapiller in York PA for example. The union would not take a pay cut to stay open. It was not a large cut. The union said no. Well, the factory closed. There, now you have no job. Poor decision by the union. So your $15.00/hour job is now $0.00/hour. The only union I recognized as attempting to save a company was the local for Preston Trucking. My father-in-law worked for Preston over 20 years. Preston was sold to a couple of guys. The company was in some trouble. They asked the union to take a cut. The agreed so the doors would stay open. They wanted to save their jobs. The facts and figures were all laid out. Agreement made to take a cut. The doors did stay open for a good year but the writing was on the wall. The company was worth more broken up and sold. It was sold. Shame as the union did attempt to keep it open. There was goodwill intention. But again, I do not despise unions. I just do not think the union type of workforce is needed anymore. There is enough watchdogs for safety. There are minimum wage laws. And, if the pay is too low, no one forces the worker to stay employed there.

Valid points by both contributors....

Often is the case that the workforce will only trust those who represent them at grass roots level...the unions.

Workforces are often suspicious of these 'watchdogs' because he who pays the piper calls the tune.

[SteamWake]

Unions = Grassroot level

The members perhaps but the unions have become more about collective bargining and political agenda that it is about 'protecting the worker'.

One of the problems with unions is that in some countries the unions themselves have become big business.

It is generaly better to have unions, than not too.
This holds true even for people like me, who prefer working outside the constraints of union membership.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Unions = Grassroot level

The members perhaps but the unions have become more about collective bargining and political agenda that it is about 'protecting the worker'.

Well should you ever be summoned into the CX office and accused of whatever I should imagine you'll soon realise who is on which side as far as the role of grassroots representation is concerned.

May not seem like that in the USA but it sure does in the UK.

A fundamental principle dating back to the Tolpuddle Martyrs era is a one of "The workers/membership are the union".