A few basic mega-noob questions.

Viewtifuljon · 01-10-10, 12:11 AM

Hi everyone. Brand new here. I started playing Silent Hunter 3 a few weeks ago when it was 5 dollars on Steam. I mean, who could pass up a deal like that? Anyways, I played a little bit, got the basics down, and played through a few patrols. I learned some extreme basics of tracking, intercepting, and even got to where I could do Manual TDC (if I was under extremely favorable conditions).

I found that I was a huge fan of the game/genre/series very quickly. I read all of the tutorials and guides I could. Wazoo's was particularly helpful. I mentions this because, since I had gotten it off of Steam, I had virtually no documentation. Not that it would have really helped me anyway. From what I hear, it's pretty lacking.

So anyway, I bought Silent Hunter 4 from Steam as soon as I could. Turns out, the AI seems to be much less forgiving this time. I breezed through the tutorials, but came to a screeching halt at the convoy tutorial. I found that I just didn't know the tools well enough to approach the convoy without being utterly destroyed by the escorts.

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Sorry, the TL;DR version starts here.
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I have a few questions. I did my best to use the search bar, and looked a most of the recommended tutorials. I'm really sorry if I missed one.

Also, I'm not playing on 100% realism... or even 50% any time soon. I'm trying to lean general strategy ATM. Anyway. On to questions.

1. The sonar contact lines on the map while you're underwater. What do they represent? Does the line mean that the ship could be anywhere on that line? Or is the ship where the line ends? I think this feature is only on a lower realism setting....

2. When I tell the sonar guy to estimate the range, he just gives me a number... No unit, unless I'm missing something. What... what is that? (I'm playing with metric measurements on, BTW. Which leads to....)

3. The metric units option. Does it actually update everything to metric? Or is some stuff unchanged? Is it OK to play on metric mode? I learned all of the relevant distances in kilometers on SHIII a few weeks ago. For instance, does the Sonar guy mentioned above change his report based on your settings? Do the dials have metric measurements. I can see that screwing me at some point...

4. I need some help with distances. Can anyone possibly tell me....
a) The range where a ship can make visual contact with you.
(EDIT: Just read a guide that said that the large circle around a ship is visual range. True?)
b) The range where you're in danger of being detected underwater by driving too fast. (not specific enough... Sorry...)

5. Is the speed estimation tool in the Manual TDC thing accurate enough? I heard that it was not good enough in SHIII.

Thank you so much everyone. I really, really hate to be a leecher, but this game is not an easy one to pick up and play, but I am really loving it. Hopefully someday I can contribute back a little bit.

Again, if I missed one of my questions in a tutorial, FAQ, or previous topic, I am sooo sorry.

Thanks everyone.

Viewtifuljon · 01-10-10, 12:29 AM

Sorry for double post, but I thought of another question.

I read the "ai" guide here: http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

But some things remain confusing. What methods can a ship use to detect you while submergerd? From what I understand, they can "hear" you because you're running too fast (Passive sonar maybe? I don't know what the term really means), they can "see" you with that shortish range sonar (active?) that goes in front of them, they can "ping" you (radar?), and they can see you visually (while surfaced, periscope left out).

This is correct?

The small circle around the ship represents radar range possibly? The larger circle is visual range? Where is the "hearing" range?

Again, thanks sooo much.

Sailor Steve · 01-10-10, 12:40 AM

WELCOME ABOARD!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viewtifuljon

1. The sonar contact lines on the map while you're underwater. What do they represent? Does the line mean that the ship could be anywhere on that line? Or is the ship where the line ends? I think this feature is only on a lower realism setting....

The ship is exactly where the line ends, even on the highest settings. It's a glitch that lets you cheat. Some mods replace them with a dashed line that goes all the way to the end of the screen. I like the solid lines, not because I measure them, but because just looking at them gives a rough general idea of who is closest, which I think is accurate.

Quote:

But some things remain confusing. What methods can a ship use to detect you while submergerd? From what I understand, they can "hear" you because you're running too fast (Passive sonar maybe? I don't know what the term really means), they can "see" you with that shortish range sonar (active?) that goes in front of them, they can "ping" you (radar?), and they can see you visually (while surfaced, periscope left out).

This is correct?

Almost. Passive sonar isn't really sonar at all, but hydrophones just like the one on your submarine. Yes, they can hear you if you're not quiet enough.

Radar doesn't work underwater. "Pinging" is the active sonar. They have a couple of different types, but they all work roughly the same. If you hear the pings it means they are looking for you, not that they have actually found you. You know that when the pings get shorter and faster and then you hear the propellors overhead.

I don't really have answers to your other questions, as I never ask the soundman for ranges and I suck at manual targeting.

Viewtifuljon · 01-10-10, 12:53 AM

Thank so much.

Ok. So the pinging is the shortish range sonar? The one that is only in a cone in front of them? OK. Any idea what the general range for that is? How far it extends in front of them?

Also, how deep would you need to go to avoid that? Or can it be avoided at all?

magic452 · 01-10-10, 01:52 AM

Welcome to the boat mate.

Running metric changes all setting in the game to metric.
Sonar will give range in meters.

Don't pay too much attention to all the circles, they are only rough guides and not very good ones at that. You learn all these things by experience and usually by getting sunk.

Visual range depends on day or night, good weather or bad and also how good the lookout are. Generally speaking if you can see them they very soon will see you. In clear weather you don't want to get much closer than 7 to 10 miles.

Passive sonar also depends on weather, bad weather=bad passive sonar.
If you are attacking an escorted convoy as soon as you go to periscope depth to to silent running and low speed 3 knots or less.

Active sonar (pinging) If you hear it they will soon find you, go very slow, get very deep and silent running (you should have already been on Silent running) Active sonar has only one dead spot and that is directly behind the destroyer about 10° either side of their stern. Same with passive sonar. Active sonar range is about 1,700m' Passive about 2,500m but it may be more or less depending on weather and ability of the escort crew. You can't go under Active sonar so much but the deeper the better. The deeper you are the less chance they will find you it no guarantee.

The speed estimate thingy is all but useless. Get your speed using the 3 minute rule. Mark the target positing on the map (the end of the sonar line) and start the stop watch. Time 3 minutes and 15 seconds for metric (3 minutes for yards) and mark the new position. measure the distance and for every 100M equals 1 knot.
500M = 5 knots, 1000 M = 10 kn.
This will also give you a rough idea of the target course, do it again a little later and you will have a good course line and accurate speed.

Magic

TwistedFemur · 01-10-10, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viewtifuljon

Thank so much.

Ok. So the pinging is the shortish range sonar? The one that is only in a cone in front of them? OK. Any idea what the general range for that is? How far it extends in front of them?

Also, how deep would you need to go to avoid that? Or can it be avoided at all?

yes there is a cone for pinging usually the closer they are the smaller the cone. To avoid sonar you want to be as quiet as possible and go deep. try to get below a thermal layer as they reduce the effectiveness of sonar.
the escorts will go to flank speed right before they drop depth charges, if they are directly over you and they go to flank (or suddenly increase speed) you should order flank and hard rudder (left or right) no sense in being quiet because they know your there. you have, I think 30 seconds, after the last depth charge explodes before thier sonar starts working again. youll want to be silent befor then.

Viewtifuljon · 01-10-10, 02:01 AM

Again, thank you so, so much for the help.

OK. A few more if any of you find the time, and don't mind.

Let's say I'm going to try to get close to a convoy as it passes, escorts and all. Am I going to want to be very deep, and then go to periscope just when I need to aim? Or am I safe to sit at periscope depth while I wait for them to pass?

What conditions need to be met in order for an escort to see me? For instance, am I safe to cross near him at 100 feet deep while moving at about 3 knots on Silent Running? Or will his active sonar still get me by chance?

Thanks everyone. Wasn't expecting such a speedy response so late at night.

magic452 · 01-10-10, 02:29 AM

Some of us are night owls.

Approaching a convoy can be done in two ways as you said going deep and wait for the escort to pass and then come to periscope depth to shoot.

Or you can stay at PD and shoot from longer range. 2,000+ meters.

Being close to an escort at 100 FEET is not a very good idea, 100 meters is more like it. Though you were playing metric????

There is no real advantage to being at 100 feet might just as well be at PD.

The thermal layer that TwistedFemur is talking about is some were between 160 feet to 200+ feet (about 50+meters) You want to be under the thermal layer if you want to get close. You will hear a call out when you pass it.

There are no set rules you just have to play around with things and learn form your experiences.

Magic

Viewtifuljon · 01-10-10, 02:40 AM

Haha, thanks. It's late, and I'm tired. I just used 100 feet off the top of my head, because it sounded deep... Maybe I was thinking meters? OK. So below the thermal layer, I should be safe. Excelent tidbit to have.

Alright, I'm gonna give it another go. Man, I never had to work this hard to beat a tutorial before. The problem seems to be predicting where the convoy is going to be. The warship in front is like... swerving randomly or something. And everybody else keeps changing course Makes my head spin.

Maybe I'll try when I'm better rested.

Again. Thanks so much for the help, everyone.

TwistedFemur · 01-10-10, 02:56 AM

ideally you want to be between the excorts and the body of the convoy

magic452 · 01-10-10, 03:09 AM

If your doing the training mission I would suggest you check this out.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159568

Magic

Horatio Nelson · 01-10-10, 06:37 AM

Hello Dear,

Multiplayer Hamachi server please come and play with me.

Hamachi server name =Swordfish at Sea
Password = 123

Pisces · 01-10-10, 07:17 AM

To avoid detection from active sonar (pinging) you should also try to put the sound at your 180 degrees, and creep away. Then your sub looks the smallest. Whereas if the sound is on your 90 degrees (or 270) you make the biggest reflection area possible. Turning towards the sound (putting it on 0 degrees) also make the smallest reflection area, but you also close the distance to it, increasing the likelyhood of detection in the future.

Viewtifuljon · 01-10-10, 10:20 AM

Oh good. That topic about the Escort Training was very encouraging. I thought it wasn't supposed to be that hard...

Again, thanks for the help everyone.

Viewtifuljon · 01-11-10, 06:01 PM

Another question, if you guys really don't mind.

Sometimes my Position Keeper stops following the enemy's ship even though I have it on. I have to turn it off and back on again to get an update, but even then it still doesn't follow. Like, on the attack map, the white "X" will be on the enemy boat briefly, but then the boat immediatly leaves it behind because the "X" is not moving. Is this a bug? Or is it a feature I don't understand?

Thanks in advance!

01-10-10, 12:11 AM	#1
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A few basic mega-noob questions. Hi everyone. Brand new here. I started playing Silent Hunter 3 a few weeks ago when it was 5 dollars on Steam. I mean, who could pass up a deal like that? Anyways, I played a little bit, got the basics down, and played through a few patrols. I learned some extreme basics of tracking, intercepting, and even got to where I could do Manual TDC (if I was under extremely favorable conditions). I found that I was a huge fan of the game/genre/series very quickly. I read all of the tutorials and guides I could. Wazoo's was particularly helpful. I mentions this because, since I had gotten it off of Steam, I had virtually no documentation. Not that it would have really helped me anyway. From what I hear, it's pretty lacking. So anyway, I bought Silent Hunter 4 from Steam as soon as I could. Turns out, the AI seems to be much less forgiving this time. I breezed through the tutorials, but came to a screeching halt at the convoy tutorial. I found that I just didn't know the tools well enough to approach the convoy without being utterly destroyed by the escorts. ---------------------------------- Sorry, the TL;DR version starts here. ---------------------------------- I have a few questions. I did my best to use the search bar, and looked a most of the recommended tutorials. I'm really sorry if I missed one. Also, I'm not playing on 100% realism... or even 50% any time soon. I'm trying to lean general strategy ATM. Anyway. On to questions. 1. The sonar contact lines on the map while you're underwater. What do they represent? Does the line mean that the ship could be anywhere on that line? Or is the ship where the line ends? I think this feature is only on a lower realism setting.... 2. When I tell the sonar guy to estimate the range, he just gives me a number... No unit, unless I'm missing something. What... what is that? (I'm playing with metric measurements on, BTW. Which leads to....) 3. The metric units option. Does it actually update everything to metric? Or is some stuff unchanged? Is it OK to play on metric mode? I learned all of the relevant distances in kilometers on SHIII a few weeks ago. For instance, does the Sonar guy mentioned above change his report based on your settings? Do the dials have metric measurements. I can see that screwing me at some point... 4. I need some help with distances. Can anyone possibly tell me.... a) The range where a ship can make visual contact with you. (EDIT: Just read a guide that said that the large circle around a ship is visual range. True?) b) The range where you're in danger of being detected underwater by driving too fast. (not specific enough... Sorry...) 5. Is the speed estimation tool in the Manual TDC thing accurate enough? I heard that it was not good enough in SHIII. Thank you so much everyone. I really, really hate to be a leecher, but this game is not an easy one to pick up and play, but I am really loving it. Hopefully someday I can contribute back a little bit. Again, if I missed one of my questions in a tutorial, FAQ, or previous topic, I am sooo sorry. Thanks everyone. Last edited by Viewtifuljon; 01-10-10 at 12:23 AM.

01-10-10, 01:52 AM	#5
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Welcome to the boat mate. Running metric changes all setting in the game to metric. Sonar will give range in meters. Don't pay too much attention to all the circles, they are only rough guides and not very good ones at that. You learn all these things by experience and usually by getting sunk. Visual range depends on day or night, good weather or bad and also how good the lookout are. Generally speaking if you can see them they very soon will see you. In clear weather you don't want to get much closer than 7 to 10 miles. Passive sonar also depends on weather, bad weather=bad passive sonar. If you are attacking an escorted convoy as soon as you go to periscope depth to to silent running and low speed 3 knots or less. Active sonar (pinging) If you hear it they will soon find you, go very slow, get very deep and silent running (you should have already been on Silent running) Active sonar has only one dead spot and that is directly behind the destroyer about 10° either side of their stern. Same with passive sonar. Active sonar range is about 1,700m' Passive about 2,500m but it may be more or less depending on weather and ability of the escort crew. You can't go under Active sonar so much but the deeper the better. The deeper you are the less chance they will find you it no guarantee. The speed estimate thingy is all but useless. Get your speed using the 3 minute rule. Mark the target positing on the map (the end of the sonar line) and start the stop watch. Time 3 minutes and 15 seconds for metric (3 minutes for yards) and mark the new position. measure the distance and for every 100M equals 1 knot. 500M = 5 knots, 1000 M = 10 kn. This will also give you a rough idea of the target course, do it again a little later and you will have a good course line and accurate speed. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

01-10-10, 02:29 AM	#8
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Some of us are night owls. Approaching a convoy can be done in two ways as you said going deep and wait for the escort to pass and then come to periscope depth to shoot. Or you can stay at PD and shoot from longer range. 2,000+ meters. Being close to an escort at 100 FEET is not a very good idea, 100 meters is more like it. Though you were playing metric???? There is no real advantage to being at 100 feet might just as well be at PD. The thermal layer that TwistedFemur is talking about is some were between 160 feet to 200+ feet (about 50+meters) You want to be under the thermal layer if you want to get close. You will hear a call out when you pass it. There are no set rules you just have to play around with things and learn form your experiences. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

01-10-10, 02:56 AM	#10
TwistedFemur Frogman Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 302 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	ideally you want to be between the excorts and the body of the convoy __________________ <a href="http://www.dewmocracy.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.dewmocracy.com/images/banner_distortion.jpg" border="0" alt="Vote for MTN DEW(R) Distortion(TM) - Dewmocracy.com" /></a>

01-10-10, 03:09 AM	#11
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	If your doing the training mission I would suggest you check this out. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=159568 Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

01-10-10, 12:29 AM	#2
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sorry for double post, but I thought of another question. I read the "ai" guide here: http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm But some things remain confusing. What methods can a ship use to detect you while submergerd? From what I understand, they can "hear" you because you're running too fast (Passive sonar maybe? I don't know what the term really means), they can "see" you with that shortish range sonar (active?) that goes in front of them, they can "ping" you (radar?), and they can see you visually (while surfaced, periscope left out). This is correct? The small circle around the ship represents radar range possibly? The larger circle is visual range? Where is the "hearing" range? Again, thanks sooo much.

01-10-10, 12:53 AM	#4
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thank so much. Ok. So the pinging is the shortish range sonar? The one that is only in a cone in front of them? OK. Any idea what the general range for that is? How far it extends in front of them? Also, how deep would you need to go to avoid that? Or can it be avoided at all?

01-10-10, 02:01 AM	#7
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Again, thank you so, so much for the help. OK. A few more if any of you find the time, and don't mind. Let's say I'm going to try to get close to a convoy as it passes, escorts and all. Am I going to want to be very deep, and then go to periscope just when I need to aim? Or am I safe to sit at periscope depth while I wait for them to pass? What conditions need to be met in order for an escort to see me? For instance, am I safe to cross near him at 100 feet deep while moving at about 3 knots on Silent Running? Or will his active sonar still get me by chance? Thanks everyone. Wasn't expecting such a speedy response so late at night.

01-10-10, 02:40 AM	#9
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Haha, thanks. It's late, and I'm tired. I just used 100 feet off the top of my head, because it sounded deep... Maybe I was thinking meters? OK. So below the thermal layer, I should be safe. Excelent tidbit to have. Alright, I'm gonna give it another go. Man, I never had to work this hard to beat a tutorial before. The problem seems to be predicting where the convoy is going to be. The warship in front is like... swerving randomly or something. And everybody else keeps changing course Makes my head spin. Maybe I'll try when I'm better rested. Again. Thanks so much for the help, everyone.

01-10-10, 06:37 AM	#12
Horatio Nelson Seaman Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Arnhem Posts: 32 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hello Dear, Multiplayer Hamachi server please come and play with me. Hamachi server name =Swordfish at Sea Password = 123 __________________

01-10-10, 07:17 AM	#13
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	To avoid detection from active sonar (pinging) you should also try to put the sound at your 180 degrees, and creep away. Then your sub looks the smallest. Whereas if the sound is on your 90 degrees (or 270) you make the biggest reflection area possible. Turning towards the sound (putting it on 0 degrees) also make the smallest reflection area, but you also close the distance to it, increasing the likelyhood of detection in the future. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

01-10-10, 10:20 AM	#14
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Oh good. That topic about the Escort Training was very encouraging. I thought it wasn't supposed to be that hard... Again, thanks for the help everyone.

01-11-10, 06:01 PM	#15
Viewtifuljon Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 8 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Another question, if you guys really don't mind. Sometimes my Position Keeper stops following the enemy's ship even though I have it on. I have to turn it off and back on again to get an update, but even then it still doesn't follow. Like, on the attack map, the white "X" will be on the enemy boat briefly, but then the boat immediatly leaves it behind because the "X" is not moving. Is this a bug? Or is it a feature I don't understand? Thanks in advance!