What is missing

Fragtzack · 12-29-09, 12:29 AM

Starting to find SH4 too easy. On 100% realism with TMO1.9. The enemy A.I. is just not smart enough. Too easy to get into harbors and sink ships at docks. Aircraft are simple to avoid. (Sh3 at least gave aircraft a chance of catching you on the surface)

But the thing what is missing the most from Silent Hunter 4 (and 3) is the element of randomness.

A random event would be for example, a piston in the engines blows. Or two crew members get in a fight which drops morale. Maybe the radar goes out(in SH4). Maybe the toilet breaks, dropping crew readiness. Or the random human error from the crew, like pumping out to sea 500 gallons of fuel on accident.

With no randomness of adverse events to the sub or environment the patrols are too predictable.

Simulations should contain random chances of chaos. The lack of random chaos seems dry and lacking realism.

Armistead · 12-29-09, 12:38 AM

Your not gonna find emotional maddness in this game. However, crew structure, injury, fatigue, ect..can effect morale.

Aircraft should be simple to avoid. You have the best radar of the time. You don't want to fight aircraft, you want to sink ships. Still TMO airplanes can drop bombs and ruin your sub in 160 depth of water.

Harbor raping is silly, just don't do it, but many harbors in 1.9 have mines and nets.

If you have contacts and cams off and you're sure TMO 1.9 is working, then that's about as hard as it gets and your skills are just uber. Many can't pull off an attack before the dd's spot them. I assume you have TMO loaded, you see a totally different loading screen and the game is 100% different than stock.
Most players feel TMO is fairly hard. It it easier early war, but around 43...it gets hard. Most of the complaints about TMO is it's impossible to make an attack without being found first.

I think Ducimas has another mod that makes the dd's even harder. I've tried it and find it almost impossible to live, so that might be what you're looking for.

Also, a lot depends on what you're looking for. You want hard, go to formosa late 44 through 45. The large convoys travel through 100 ft of water. You'll face nothing but type A-D escorts that have 6 Y guns, some more and can dump 24 charges per run. Have 6 of those on you in shallow water with planes bombing you while you're in a mine field....and see how long you live.

Torplexed · 12-29-09, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragtzack

Simulations should contain random chances of chaos. The lack of random chaos seems dry and lacking realism.

Oddly, enough the much disparaged SH2 had this feature, where the diesels would overheat and malfunction, especially if run for a while at high speed. Like a lot of neat features from the earlier subsims, it got left behind.

I've complained in the past about the lack of proper harbor defenses. In the unmodded game you can rack up major capital ship tonnage in both SH3 and 4 by hitting major naval anchorages without worrying too much about mines or nets.

Historically, aircraft were less a threat to American submarines in the Pacific as they had proper air search radar almost from the beginning, and the Japanese never devoted as many resources to using planes and training pilots in the ASW role as the Allies did.

WarlordATF · 12-29-09, 01:45 AM

A random factor would be nice, but saying TMO is too easy is insane to me. I was having so much trouble trying to setup attacks that i was not having any fun with the game so i started with the stock game and stole as much of TMO as i could without the AI upgrades to create my version of the game.

I honestly couldn't get within 3000 yds without being detected and i used every idea i could think of, i tried deep and silent,shallow and silent,night on the surface, you name it. Granted, i'm not the best skipper around but i have cut my teeth on GATO,Silent Service 1,Janes 688I,Silent Hunter 1,2 and 3, and SH4 with TMO is the most challenging sub sim i have ever played.

Armistead · 12-29-09, 05:08 AM

I think FORS mod has more subnets around harbors. Realistically, most harbors should be off limits, so I just pretend they're and not go there.

Would be cool if they had working subnets where your only option was to follow a ship in..but that's movie stuff. If a sub sunk one ship, it would never get a chance to go back out. The nets would stay closed until it surfaced and was blown out of the water.

I think the game chose more reality, because many skippers in real life snuck into many of the harbors, but mostly far from Japan. You certainly wouldn't sneak into one in Japan.

I wonder if it's possible to mod random damage....probably could be done.

12-29-09, 12:29 AM	#1
Fragtzack Seaman Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 32 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	What is missing Starting to find SH4 too easy. On 100% realism with TMO1.9. The enemy A.I. is just not smart enough. Too easy to get into harbors and sink ships at docks. Aircraft are simple to avoid. (Sh3 at least gave aircraft a chance of catching you on the surface) But the thing what is missing the most from Silent Hunter 4 (and 3) is the element of randomness. A random event would be for example, a piston in the engines blows. Or two crew members get in a fight which drops morale. Maybe the radar goes out(in SH4). Maybe the toilet breaks, dropping crew readiness. Or the random human error from the crew, like pumping out to sea 500 gallons of fuel on accident. With no randomness of adverse events to the sub or environment the patrols are too predictable. Simulations should contain random chances of chaos. The lack of random chaos seems dry and lacking realism.

12-29-09, 12:38 AM	#2
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Your not gonna find emotional maddness in this game. However, crew structure, injury, fatigue, ect..can effect morale. Aircraft should be simple to avoid. You have the best radar of the time. You don't want to fight aircraft, you want to sink ships. Still TMO airplanes can drop bombs and ruin your sub in 160 depth of water. Harbor raping is silly, just don't do it, but many harbors in 1.9 have mines and nets. If you have contacts and cams off and you're sure TMO 1.9 is working, then that's about as hard as it gets and your skills are just uber. Many can't pull off an attack before the dd's spot them. I assume you have TMO loaded, you see a totally different loading screen and the game is 100% different than stock. Most players feel TMO is fairly hard. It it easier early war, but around 43...it gets hard. Most of the complaints about TMO is it's impossible to make an attack without being found first. I think Ducimas has another mod that makes the dd's even harder. I've tried it and find it almost impossible to live, so that might be what you're looking for. Also, a lot depends on what you're looking for. You want hard, go to formosa late 44 through 45. The large convoys travel through 100 ft of water. You'll face nothing but type A-D escorts that have 6 Y guns, some more and can dump 24 charges per run. Have 6 of those on you in shallow water with planes bombing you while you're in a mine field....and see how long you live.

12-29-09, 01:45 AM	#4
WarlordATF Frogman Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SW Florida Posts: 288 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	A random factor would be nice, but saying TMO is too easy is insane to me. I was having so much trouble trying to setup attacks that i was not having any fun with the game so i started with the stock game and stole as much of TMO as i could without the AI upgrades to create my version of the game. I honestly couldn't get within 3000 yds without being detected and i used every idea i could think of, i tried deep and silent,shallow and silent,night on the surface, you name it. Granted, i'm not the best skipper around but i have cut my teeth on GATO,Silent Service 1,Janes 688I,Silent Hunter 1,2 and 3, and SH4 with TMO is the most challenging sub sim i have ever played.

12-29-09, 05:08 AM	#5
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I think FORS mod has more subnets around harbors. Realistically, most harbors should be off limits, so I just pretend they're and not go there. Would be cool if they had working subnets where your only option was to follow a ship in..but that's movie stuff. If a sub sunk one ship, it would never get a chance to go back out. The nets would stay closed until it surfaced and was blown out of the water. I think the game chose more reality, because many skippers in real life snuck into many of the harbors, but mostly far from Japan. You certainly wouldn't sneak into one in Japan. I wonder if it's possible to mod random damage....probably could be done.