Ahoy All + help from vet players

BigBANGtheory · 12-26-09, 02:40 PM

Hi everyone, my first post and all that

With the recent publicity of SH5 I picked up a cheap deal on SH4 + Uboat Missions but despite a real desire to get into the fray I am really struggling with this game and would appreciate some advice from the community.

On the Plus side:
I'm a 30yr+ player not opposed to patience, I played SS2 back in the 90's, I've seen and enjoyed movies like U571, Run Silent Run Deep, Torpedo Run. I own the directors cut DVD of Das Boot 'the series' rate it as the 2nd best TV-mini series of all time (and pity people who have only seen the film version). I have a degree in applied Physics so maths and trig doesnt put me off, I was a world class player in a well known RTS game, and I enjoy the epic space FPS/Sim X3 (which isn't for the faint hearted). I have played through the subamrine school missions, watched some vids like Dick o'kanes advice on navigation, sonar etc (which was throughly entertaining, seriously cool bloke). I have decent PC hardware and can run SH4 on max setting + force antialiasing through my GPU driver, for a game released in 2007 it looks pretty damn smart.

On the down side:
Ok so I am playing SH4 + Uboat missions but no mods becuase I wanted to learn the vanilla game first. There is no easy way to say this I should like the game, I want to like the game, but I'm just 'not getting it', in a nutshell I am not finding it entertaining.

Now I should point out that my purpose here is not to ridicule the game in anyway but rather learn to appeciate it and get into the swing of things mainly becuase I want to play SH5 next year and I like what I see so far.

As a newb player what should I be doing that I am currently not?

Thanks in advance for the good Salty Sea Dog Samaritan's helping out a skipper currently lost at sea.

VirtualVikingX · 12-26-09, 02:51 PM

Hi and welcome aboard as the say around here! I am not a vet by any means, but I understand you when there is something lacking in the "immersion factor". I am still trying to get into the game.

Maybe some old movies could help me?

Anyway, I would recomend looking in to some of the mods.

Rockin Robbins · 12-26-09, 03:43 PM

Arrrrr!

Welcome aboard and have a mug 'o grog there. Have a seat and stay awhile.

Yes, this game has the learning curve shaped like the Cliffs of Dover. At first the boat is hard to handle. You're supposed to fight a boat that you can't handle properly, so not only can't you hit anything, it might be difficult to find something to begin with.

I recommend a stop-by at my Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks Thread, not to learn the advanced targeting tricks there, but to access Legion's Noob Guide, the Automatic Targeting Tutorial Video and a few other items of interest like the Chart Table Tools Tutorial.

You're doing it right, starting out with no mods. Make sure you have automatic targeting enabled and map contacts on at a minimum so you can concentrate on boat handling skills to begin with.

Above all, when you get frustrated, leave it for awhile. These skills come at their own pace and you can't rush them. I assure you that the quality of the game makes attaining the skills very worth it.

Keep in touch and use this thread for that.

Sailor Steve · 12-26-09, 04:08 PM

WELCOME ABOARD!

As oppposed to even the best movies, the real world of submarines (and ships in general) is slow and boring by nature. I'm not sure if that's the problem your having, but even played at the simplest levels the SH series can be much less exciting to someone used to the excitement of just about any other kind of game.

While I agree with Rockin Robbins about playing the stock game first, I would recommend Operation Monsun, not because it adds more, but because it comes with a full set of playable training tutorials. Barring that, try the American side - it has its own training classes as well. Also you might go ahead and install one of the good sound mods, just because you'll get more immersion from hearing German voices in your u-boat.

All I can think of besides that is to ask lots of questions about anything and everything. We're always glad to help any way we can.

12-26-09, 04:42 PM

i would add you should try just playing single missions at first for faster action and quicker results so you get your hands on training so to speak then when your good at the single missions move on to trying careers.

i think my GFO mod night be good for you to try since it has many fixes for the game but very few changes so its still mostly stock and doesnt change difficulty levels

once you get used to the game and want more of a challenge then TMO or RFB are great mods for that

Akula4745 · 12-26-09, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

While I agree with Rockin Robbins about playing the stock game first, I would recommend Operation Monsun, not because it adds more, but because it comes with a full set of playable training tutorials. Barring that, try the American side - it has its own training classes as well. Also you might go ahead and install one of the good sound mods, just because you'll get more immersion from hearing German voices in your u-boat.

Ops Monsun is da bomb. Definitely check it out...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=157191

And SH5 is about U-boats anyway. Come and join the dark side...

WargamerScott · 12-26-09, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBANGtheory

I enjoy the epic space FPS/Sim X3 (which isn't for the faint hearted).

That is good news. If you like X3 (which I do, too!), this game should not be an obstacle to you. The biggest difference between the two is that X3 has fast action for combat (well, for the smaller craft) while sub warfare is much more Chess-like. It is not about fast attacks but patiently getting you boat into just the right position and patiently awaiting the moment to strike. In many ways, sinking a ship involves the same emotional roller coaster as getting a checkmate!

And what a checkmate it is! When you finally manage to get a kill and watch a massive freighter go down, the experience is (almost) as thrilling as an actual checkmate (I'm a chess player first and foremost

).

Best advice: just hang in there. Your first few hours with the game will be as confusing as X3. But once you get a feel for how everything works, you will probably love the game as much as the rest of us.

PS: Don't wait to long for the mods, either. I found the TMO mod made the game much more enjoyable than the base vanilla game.

Munchausen · 12-26-09, 05:30 PM

What Wargamer said is spot on. Sinking a large oil tanker is like docking with the ISS in Orbiter ... it takes time and patience. You're not constantly busy fighting off bad guys like in X-3. But, when you succeed in SH4, it's a lot more satisfying. It's also a lot harder to evade enemy destroyers to get to your target (not counting a couple missions in X-3 where you go into enemy territory to steal an abandoned ship).

The problem with the vanilla version isn't so much with game play as it is with game bugs. Webster has put together a mod that fixes most of the shortfalls in the game ... allowing you more and better options when you finally decide to take up manual targeting. Auto-targeting has only two real purposes: training ... and ego-building. To keep SH4 interesting, you need to make use of the tools you can only access when playing the game for Real.

I'm goin' down · 12-26-09, 10:39 PM

This game takes a lot of work, and just when you think you have it in had, one the topeodoes runs in a circle and kicks your butt (in addition to the dds.)

sergei · 12-27-09, 12:07 AM

Welcome.
As a long time player of both x3 and the sh series, I understand your pain.
I find sh4 a bit like x3 in that it is frustrating as hell at first, but once you get into it very rewarding. Stick with it, I think you'll love it.
Oh, and welcome aboard

MoN · 12-27-09, 11:04 AM

I wouldn´t start with stock SH4.

The american side is just frustrating by spamming you with hundrets of planes and the german side is boring as hell as you can do patrols for a year without ever seeing anything then groups of one to five cargo ships.

OM with OMEGU is probably your best bet. Starting in early war with a Type IX so you don´t get send to british homewaters.

You will meet all types of stuff from single merchants over HUGE convoys to taskforces, so you can train your tactics.

Also it gets more difficult every year and it is boderline impossible to survive the whole war, which just makes for a better game then the american side, which i find to become more boring and easier as the war progresses.

All that said: TMO or RFB with RSRDC are excellent also, allthough you will want to slap the manufactors of the mark14 torpedo after playing some TMO.

Armistead · 12-27-09, 11:14 AM

For players like you, I advise against stock. I almost quit because stock was rather silly to me. When I loaded up TMO, I found the game I wanted.
The graphics improve 100%, things work as they should. The only thing you may prefer is TMO with Training Wheels if you don't want the hard reality that TMO brings. Websters GFO may be another good starting point.

To me why learn bad habits from stock if you know you're gonna mod. Sure you can re-learn the game, but I would rather start with the way the game should've been out of the box.

Also, load some radio stations. Helps pass the boredom. If you hate those long patrols across seas, start at Manila, just be prepared to lose you base and head south.

I think most that really enjoy the game are those that love WW2 history.

12-26-09, 02:40 PM	#1
BigBANGtheory Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: British Waters Posts: 243 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	Ahoy All + help from vet players Hi everyone, my first post and all that With the recent publicity of SH5 I picked up a cheap deal on SH4 + Uboat Missions but despite a real desire to get into the fray I am really struggling with this game and would appreciate some advice from the community. On the Plus side: I'm a 30yr+ player not opposed to patience, I played SS2 back in the 90's, I've seen and enjoyed movies like U571, Run Silent Run Deep, Torpedo Run. I own the directors cut DVD of Das Boot 'the series' rate it as the 2nd best TV-mini series of all time (and pity people who have only seen the film version). I have a degree in applied Physics so maths and trig doesnt put me off, I was a world class player in a well known RTS game, and I enjoy the epic space FPS/Sim X3 (which isn't for the faint hearted). I have played through the subamrine school missions, watched some vids like Dick o'kanes advice on navigation, sonar etc (which was throughly entertaining, seriously cool bloke). I have decent PC hardware and can run SH4 on max setting + force antialiasing through my GPU driver, for a game released in 2007 it looks pretty damn smart. On the down side: Ok so I am playing SH4 + Uboat missions but no mods becuase I wanted to learn the vanilla game first. There is no easy way to say this I should like the game, I want to like the game, but I'm just 'not getting it', in a nutshell I am not finding it entertaining. Now I should point out that my purpose here is not to ridicule the game in anyway but rather learn to appeciate it and get into the swing of things mainly becuase I want to play SH5 next year and I like what I see so far. As a newb player what should I be doing that I am currently not? Thanks in advance for the good Salty Sea Dog Samaritan's helping out a skipper currently lost at sea.

12-26-09, 03:43 PM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Arrrrr! Welcome aboard and have a mug 'o grog there. Have a seat and stay awhile. Yes, this game has the learning curve shaped like the Cliffs of Dover. At first the boat is hard to handle. You're supposed to fight a boat that you can't handle properly, so not only can't you hit anything, it might be difficult to find something to begin with. I recommend a stop-by at my Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks Thread, not to learn the advanced targeting tricks there, but to access Legion's Noob Guide, the Automatic Targeting Tutorial Video and a few other items of interest like the Chart Table Tools Tutorial. You're doing it right, starting out with no mods. Make sure you have automatic targeting enabled and map contacts on at a minimum so you can concentrate on boat handling skills to begin with. Above all, when you get frustrated, leave it for awhile. These skills come at their own pace and you can't rush them. I assure you that the quality of the game makes attaining the skills very worth it. Keep in touch and use this thread for that. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

12-26-09, 04:08 PM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	WELCOME ABOARD! As oppposed to even the best movies, the real world of submarines (and ships in general) is slow and boring by nature. I'm not sure if that's the problem your having, but even played at the simplest levels the SH series can be much less exciting to someone used to the excitement of just about any other kind of game. While I agree with Rockin Robbins about playing the stock game first, I would recommend Operation Monsun, not because it adds more, but because it comes with a full set of playable training tutorials. Barring that, try the American side - it has its own training classes as well. Also you might go ahead and install one of the good sound mods, just because you'll get more immersion from hearing German voices in your u-boat. All I can think of besides that is to ask lots of questions about anything and everything. We're always glad to help any way we can. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-26-09, 10:39 PM	#9
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	Video tutorials are good This game takes a lot of work, and just when you think you have it in had, one the topeodoes runs in a circle and kicks your butt (in addition to the dds.)

12-26-09, 02:51 PM	#2
VirtualVikingX Captain Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 262 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Hi and welcome aboard as the say around here! I am not a vet by any means, but I understand you when there is something lacking in the "immersion factor". I am still trying to get into the game. Maybe some old movies could help me? Anyway, I would recomend looking in to some of the mods.

12-26-09, 04:42 PM	#5
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	i would add you should try just playing single missions at first for faster action and quicker results so you get your hands on training so to speak then when your good at the single missions move on to trying careers. i think my GFO mod night be good for you to try since it has many fixes for the game but very few changes so its still mostly stock and doesnt change difficulty levels once you get used to the game and want more of a challenge then TMO or RFB are great mods for that

12-26-09, 05:30 PM	#8
Munchausen Commodore Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 608 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	What Wargamer said is spot on. Sinking a large oil tanker is like docking with the ISS in Orbiter ... it takes time and patience. You're not constantly busy fighting off bad guys like in X-3. But, when you succeed in SH4, it's a lot more satisfying. It's also a lot harder to evade enemy destroyers to get to your target (not counting a couple missions in X-3 where you go into enemy territory to steal an abandoned ship). The problem with the vanilla version isn't so much with game play as it is with game bugs. Webster has put together a mod that fixes most of the shortfalls in the game ... allowing you more and better options when you finally decide to take up manual targeting. Auto-targeting has only two real purposes: training ... and ego-building. To keep SH4 interesting, you need to make use of the tools you can only access when playing the game for Real.

12-27-09, 12:07 AM	#10
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	Welcome. As a long time player of both x3 and the sh series, I understand your pain. I find sh4 a bit like x3 in that it is frustrating as hell at first, but once you get into it very rewarding. Stick with it, I think you'll love it. Oh, and welcome aboard

12-27-09, 11:04 AM	#11
MoN Seaman Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 38 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	I wouldn´t start with stock SH4. The american side is just frustrating by spamming you with hundrets of planes and the german side is boring as hell as you can do patrols for a year without ever seeing anything then groups of one to five cargo ships. OM with OMEGU is probably your best bet. Starting in early war with a Type IX so you don´t get send to british homewaters. You will meet all types of stuff from single merchants over HUGE convoys to taskforces, so you can train your tactics. Also it gets more difficult every year and it is boderline impossible to survive the whole war, which just makes for a better game then the american side, which i find to become more boring and easier as the war progresses. All that said: TMO or RFB with RSRDC are excellent also, allthough you will want to slap the manufactors of the mark14 torpedo after playing some TMO.

12-27-09, 11:14 AM	#12
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	For players like you, I advise against stock. I almost quit because stock was rather silly to me. When I loaded up TMO, I found the game I wanted. The graphics improve 100%, things work as they should. The only thing you may prefer is TMO with Training Wheels if you don't want the hard reality that TMO brings. Websters GFO may be another good starting point. To me why learn bad habits from stock if you know you're gonna mod. Sure you can re-learn the game, but I would rather start with the way the game should've been out of the box. Also, load some radio stations. Helps pass the boredom. If you hate those long patrols across seas, start at Manila, just be prepared to lose you base and head south. I think most that really enjoy the game are those that love WW2 history.