2 Japanese Subs Are Found in Waters Off Hawaii

DarthVrooks · 11-12-09, 08:47 PM

By HENRY FOUNTAIN
Published: November 12, 2009

Researchers on Thursday announced the discovery of two World War II Japanese submarines, including one meant to carry aircraft for attacks on American cities and the Panama Canal, in deep water off Hawaii, where they were sunk 63 years ago.

The submarines, among five that were captured by American forces at the end of the war and brought to Pearl Harbor for study, were found off Oahu at a depth of about 2,600 feet using submersibles from the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory, which is financed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and located at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. The five were towed to sea in 1946 and torpedoed, and the researchers said one reason for that was to avoid having to share any of the technology with the Russian military.
One of the Japanese craft, the I-201, was capable of speeds of about 20 knots while submerged, making it among the fastest diesel submarines ever made. Like other Japanese subs, it had a rubberized coating on the hull, an innovation intended to make it less apparent to sonar or radar.
The other, the I-14, was much larger and slower and designed to carry two small planes, Aichi M6A Seirans. The aircraft, which had folding wings and tails and could carry a torpedo or 1,800-pound bomb, were housed in watertight hangars inside the submarine. They could be brought onto the deck and launched by a catapult. (The only existing Seiran is in the hands of the Smithsonian.)
Together with the discovery four years ago of the I-401, one of two Japanese vessels that were the largest nonnuclear submarines ever built, the finding “really gives us a cross section of some of the great late-war technology” Japan possessed, said Hans K. van Tilburg, of the national marine sanctuaries program at NOAA.
The search was also sponsored by the National Geographic Channel, which produced a documentary to be broadcast next Tuesday.
Terry Kerby, the laboratory’s operations director and chief pilot, said his group had been searching for wrecks from the World War II era wrecks since 1992 during “test and trial” dives, in which crews check out the submersibles’ systems before undertaking major scientific explorations. “The big ‘I’ boats have been high on our list,” Mr. Kerby said at a telephone news conference announcing the latest finds.
Mr. Kerby said the discovery of the I-401 helped lead the researchers to the I-14. When the I-401 was announced, retired Navy personnel contacted the laboratory to describe what happened to some of the other subs. One sailor provided 16-millimeter footage he had taken of the I-14 being torpedoed. While shooting the event, he panned the camera to show Diamond Head and other features on the coast.
“We were able to pick some landmarks and triangulate and get a rough position of where the I-14 went down,” Mr. Kerby said.
While the submarines were meant to threaten the United States directly, none of the attacks occurred. The subs were developed too late in the war, and American intelligence was too good. Carl Boyd, a former history professor at Old Dominion University and co-author of “The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II,” said the Navy always knew what the subs were doing.
Mr. Boyd, who was not involved in the discoveries, said that keeping the technology out of Russian hands was only one reason for sinking the subs in 1946. Another was the condition of the vessels: they were filthy — they had been crawling with rats when captured — and generally unreliable. “We gained as much as we could out of them,” he said. “The things just weren’t safe.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/sc...er=rss&emc=rss

Torplexed · 11-12-09, 09:37 PM

Interesting stuff. The primary reason there are no existing I-Boats today is that the remaining examples were all scuttled by the USN.

Quote:

Another was the condition of the vessels: they were filthy — they had been crawling with rats when captured — and generally unreliable.

Yeah...I've read US ships had to moor well upwind of captured Japanese subs, the sanitary conditions on board at the end of the war were so poor.

Catfish · 11-13-09, 07:17 AM

Hello,
from the OFF forum - one of the makers of the "Over Flanders Fields" sim is actually part of the team that found those, and made a documentary about those subs.

There is a National Geographic Channel special on November 17,
9 PM entitled "Hunt for the Samurai Subs".

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-4577/Overview

Quote from Polovski:

" ... Terry Kerby who heads the Deep Sea Operations at the Hawaii University Reasearch Lab (HURL). Terry is affectionately known to us as Makai and has done some amazing work on OFF: BHaH. He is responsible for skinning the DFW C.IV/V, Pfalz D.III, Alb D.II, Fokker Dr.1 and worked with me on the Fokker D.VII series of aircraft skins as well.

The show will focus on exploring deep into the Pacific Ocean off the coat of Oahu Island to seek out the I-400 and I-401 class Japaneese attack subs. These two submaries are recorded as the worlds largest Diesel powered craft ever to be built at a jaw-dropping 400+ feet long each. They allowed the for the storage of 3 dive bomber type floatation aircraft to be released from a hanger built into the conning tower. The plan for these subs was to attack a major U.S. naval base in the Pacific. But these subs were promptly handed over to the US Navy shortly after Japan signed the documents declaring surrender and ending WWII. The subs were then tested and inspected by the US Navy and scuttled shortly afterward when Russian Scientists demanded access to them.

The show will bring you up and close with computer generated models of the original submarine designs, re-enactments, and actual footage from the subs piloted by Terry. Nat Geo will take you on board the main support vessel that carries the subs across the ocean to the diving site as well... so we'll get to see what life is like for Terry out at sea. Like any other show Nat Geo does, this one promises to be outstanding! ..."

Just a reminder ;-)

Greetings,
Catfish

Oberon · 11-13-09, 07:40 AM

Christ, when you think about it...that's only about 150 ft shorter than a Typhoon...

Rubber coated hulls as well

geetrue · 11-13-09, 08:20 PM

The first US Navy inspectors after the war was over of these I boats said that the head just had a place for the feet and a couple of holes in the floor ... yuck!

Jimbuna · 11-13-09, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

The first US Navy inspectors after the war was over of these I boats said that the head just had a place for the feet and a couple of holes in the floor ... yuck!

Now we know why they were slanty eyed......all that 'holding it in'

Platapus · 11-13-09, 08:37 PM

Trivia question:

The I-401 was the longest non-nuclear Submarine built at 120M.

What was the longest US non-nuclear Submarine built?

Jimbuna · 11-14-09, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Trivia question:

The I-401 was the longest non-nuclear Submarine built at 120M.

What was the longest US non-nuclear Submarine built?

USS Argonaut

Platapus · 11-14-09, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

USS Argonaut

Excellent!!!

I was afraid the answer would be the Narwhal/Nautilus which were big, but 6 meters shorter than the Argonaut

You rock!

Platapus · 11-14-09, 09:46 AM

Let's make it a bit trickier.

After WWII, what was the longest non-nuclear US Submarine and what was it's unusual mission?

(snicker)

Jimbuna · 11-14-09, 09:50 AM

Hey!...where's the prize....money will do just fine

I know the other one too....but we'll give someone else a chance

Platapus · 11-14-09, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Hey!...where's the prize....money will do just fine

The prize is my admiration. That and a green light will get you halfway across a street though.

Jimbuna · 11-14-09, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

The prize is my admiration. That and a green light will get you halfway across a street though.

LOL

Doesn't look like anyone is stepping forward, I'll gve them a clue:

It wasn't USS Halibut at 110m....she began as a diesel but was finished as a nuclear boat and was designed to launch guided missiles.

Platapus · 11-14-09, 06:41 PM

And it really wasn't an attack type submarine either.....

Jimbuna · 11-14-09, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

And it really wasn't an attack type submarine either.....

You've got me wondering now if the two boats I'm thinking of are the correct vessels

11-12-09, 08:47 PM	#1
DarthVrooks Seaman Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 34 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	2 Japanese Subs Are Found in Waters Off Hawaii By HENRY FOUNTAIN Published: November 12, 2009 Researchers on Thursday announced the discovery of two World War II Japanese submarines, including one meant to carry aircraft for attacks on American cities and the Panama Canal, in deep water off Hawaii, where they were sunk 63 years ago. The submarines, among five that were captured by American forces at the end of the war and brought to Pearl Harbor for study, were found off Oahu at a depth of about 2,600 feet using submersibles from the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory, which is financed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and located at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. The five were towed to sea in 1946 and torpedoed, and the researchers said one reason for that was to avoid having to share any of the technology with the Russian military. One of the Japanese craft, the I-201, was capable of speeds of about 20 knots while submerged, making it among the fastest diesel submarines ever made. Like other Japanese subs, it had a rubberized coating on the hull, an innovation intended to make it less apparent to sonar or radar. The other, the I-14, was much larger and slower and designed to carry two small planes, Aichi M6A Seirans. The aircraft, which had folding wings and tails and could carry a torpedo or 1,800-pound bomb, were housed in watertight hangars inside the submarine. They could be brought onto the deck and launched by a catapult. (The only existing Seiran is in the hands of the Smithsonian.) Together with the discovery four years ago of the I-401, one of two Japanese vessels that were the largest nonnuclear submarines ever built, the finding “really gives us a cross section of some of the great late-war technology” Japan possessed, said Hans K. van Tilburg, of the national marine sanctuaries program at NOAA. The search was also sponsored by the National Geographic Channel, which produced a documentary to be broadcast next Tuesday. Terry Kerby, the laboratory’s operations director and chief pilot, said his group had been searching for wrecks from the World War II era wrecks since 1992 during “test and trial” dives, in which crews check out the submersibles’ systems before undertaking major scientific explorations. “The big ‘I’ boats have been high on our list,” Mr. Kerby said at a telephone news conference announcing the latest finds. Mr. Kerby said the discovery of the I-401 helped lead the researchers to the I-14. When the I-401 was announced, retired Navy personnel contacted the laboratory to describe what happened to some of the other subs. One sailor provided 16-millimeter footage he had taken of the I-14 being torpedoed. While shooting the event, he panned the camera to show Diamond Head and other features on the coast. “We were able to pick some landmarks and triangulate and get a rough position of where the I-14 went down,” Mr. Kerby said. While the submarines were meant to threaten the United States directly, none of the attacks occurred. The subs were developed too late in the war, and American intelligence was too good. Carl Boyd, a former history professor at Old Dominion University and co-author of “The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II,” said the Navy always knew what the subs were doing. Mr. Boyd, who was not involved in the discoveries, said that keeping the technology out of Russian hands was only one reason for sinking the subs in 1946. Another was the condition of the vessels: they were filthy — they had been crawling with rats when captured — and generally unreliable. “We gained as much as we could out of them,” he said. “The things just weren’t safe.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/sc...er=rss&emc=rss

11-13-09, 08:20 PM	#5
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The first US Navy inspectors after the war was over of these I boats said that the head just had a place for the feet and a couple of holes in the floor ... yuck! __________________

11-13-09, 08:37 PM	#7
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Trivia question: The I-401 was the longest non-nuclear Submarine built at 120M. What was the longest US non-nuclear Submarine built? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-14-09, 09:46 AM	#10
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Let's make it a bit trickier. After WWII, what was the longest non-nuclear US Submarine and what was it's unusual mission? (snicker) __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-14-09, 09:50 AM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Hey!...where's the prize....money will do just fine I know the other one too....but we'll give someone else a chance __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-13-09, 07:17 AM	#3
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, from the OFF forum - one of the makers of the "Over Flanders Fields" sim is actually part of the team that found those, and made a documentary about those subs. There is a National Geographic Channel special on November 17, 9 PM entitled "Hunt for the Samurai Subs". http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-4577/Overview Quote from Polovski: " ... Terry Kerby who heads the Deep Sea Operations at the Hawaii University Reasearch Lab (HURL). Terry is affectionately known to us as Makai and has done some amazing work on OFF: BHaH. He is responsible for skinning the DFW C.IV/V, Pfalz D.III, Alb D.II, Fokker Dr.1 and worked with me on the Fokker D.VII series of aircraft skins as well. The show will focus on exploring deep into the Pacific Ocean off the coat of Oahu Island to seek out the I-400 and I-401 class Japaneese attack subs. These two submaries are recorded as the worlds largest Diesel powered craft ever to be built at a jaw-dropping 400+ feet long each. They allowed the for the storage of 3 dive bomber type floatation aircraft to be released from a hanger built into the conning tower. The plan for these subs was to attack a major U.S. naval base in the Pacific. But these subs were promptly handed over to the US Navy shortly after Japan signed the documents declaring surrender and ending WWII. The subs were then tested and inspected by the US Navy and scuttled shortly afterward when Russian Scientists demanded access to them. The show will bring you up and close with computer generated models of the original submarine designs, re-enactments, and actual footage from the subs piloted by Terry. Nat Geo will take you on board the main support vessel that carries the subs across the ocean to the diving site as well... so we'll get to see what life is like for Terry out at sea. Like any other show Nat Geo does, this one promises to be outstanding! ..." Just a reminder ;-) Greetings, Catfish

11-13-09, 07:40 AM	#4
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Christ, when you think about it...that's only about 150 ft shorter than a Typhoon... Rubber coated hulls as well

11-14-09, 06:41 PM	#14
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	And it really wasn't an attack type submarine either..... __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.